Rookie Fits: Josh Uche

-by memokerobi

From a football perspective, I hate the time between the draft and training camp; besides that, to be honest, it’s my favorite time of the year :). Anyways, this year without the OTAs and with the uncertainty surrounding training camp and the season, we don’t know when we’ll get the first glimpse of our rookies. To fill that void, I wanted to start a series where I look into our Day 2 picks and their film and try to guess how they fit into our scheme. I expect to be more busy in the next few weeks so this series might drag on but I will try to finish all 5 players before TC. The first installment of our series is Josh Uche because I don’t have Lenoir-Rhyne game film as of right now.

Warning: The first part of this article is a bit numbery with snap counts, alignment percentages and player measurables so you can skip right ahead to the paragraph that starts with “we will begin by”.

Josh Uche, 6’1″, 245 lbs, Michigan

After playing sparsely in his first three years at Michigan, Uche played 470 snaps on defense as a senior. He played all over the defensive front, mostly outside the tackle in a 2-pt stance or as an off-ball mike or strong side linebacker. According to PFF, he lined up on the line of scrimmage outside the tackle 299 times (64% D-Line) while lining up off the LoS in the Box 170 times (36% Box). To further show his versatility, of his 470 snaps, 206 (43%) were as a pass rusher, 191 (40%) were as a run defender and 73 (17%) were in coverage. This is quite similar to Van Noy’s workload last year (53 % pass rush, 36% run, 11% coverage).

After watching Uche and putting more thought into this pick, I think that he will play off-ball more for us and this pick was actually made with the idea to make him a full-time LB. His skillset and athleticism is perfect to be a modern linebacker for our defense and he showed great play in space even though he is still a vastly inexperienced football player. I expect his snap distribution to resemble the Jamie Collins role (23% pass rush, 35% run D, 42% coverage) with a little more emphasis on pass rush. So shout out Smack for possibly being right when he said Uche would be our athletic Jamie Collins-type linebacker. The two main reasons I think so are his physical build and his play.

As you all know by this point, Uche is smaller than the players we are accustomed to seeing play the edge in our front (KVN: 6’3 250, Winovich: 6’3 250, Simon: 6’2 260). I can’t see Uche who was a slightly smaller frame at 6’1, 245 lbs playing 88.5% of his defensive snaps on the D-line like Van Noy did for us last year. Again, I think the Collins role is a much better fit here (40% D-Line, 52% Box) with maybe a bit more time on the line. Also, look at how Uche’s size compares to the top five linebackers taken in this draft:

Kenneth Murray 6’2, 241
Jordyn Brooks 6’0 240
Patrick Queen 6’0 230
Logan Wilson 6’2 241
Willie Gay Jr. 6’2 243

I also want to add here that I did not just do some digging around with numbers and then fitted them to my narrative. I actually started watching him as an edge player but the more and more I watched him, it was more evident to me that this was a LB pick and also why they got Anfernee Jennings later on. So, let’s get to his play. I will try to talk much more about what he can do rather than what he can’t, although I’ll touch briefly on areas he is not as good.

We will begin by looking at his play when he’s playing on the line. One of the first things you notice about Uche is that he is super athletic. His burst, acceleration, change of direction and speed are all good or better. In terms of his pass rush, his athleticism is evident in his get-offs. He jumps off his snap and stresses the OT’s kick step. He will regularly beat OTs to their spot and shows good bend and speed to round the corner and get to the QB. He also uses his long arms well here in clearing the hands of the blocker. While he may have a smaller frame, he uses his burst, acceleration and arm length to his advantage by displaying an effective speed to power rush and driving some OTs back.

Here is a good example from the Senior Bowl where he beats Terence Steele (UDFA Cowboys) with his speed and gets to the QB. Uche is aligned outside the right tackle and TE.

He is also a very twitchy athlete with great CoD skills so another move he wins with is faking the outside speed rush and then cutting inside. However, Uche is not as productive vs better tackles with good technique and size which he will face more often in the NFL. The below tweet is a cutup of Uche’s 1v1 snaps vs Tristan Wirfs (Pick 13, Bucs).

While Uche plays with tremendous motor and has some effectiveness with his speed to power move in driving him back in some reps, Wirfs doesn’t let him get to his quarterback. In the Alabama game against Jedrick Wills (Pick 10, Browns), it was more of the same. Uche made Wills work for his money but Wills held up really well. The two reasons I think why he can’t have consistent success vs better tackles are his frame (to the point where he’s going against players 5 inches taller and 60 pounds heavier) and his lack of counter moves when his initial pass rush move is shut down. He also has a tendency to go too much down the field with his speed move, losing contain that had led to some big plays by the offense which is a no-go in NE.

Going back to the positives, Uche wins the vast majority of his matchups vs TEs whether as a run defender or pass rusher. This is also quite important and encouraging to me as if he plays off-ball LB, there is a good chance that he faces blocking TEs rather than tackles. This is an example of him beating Brycen Hopkins (TE, 4th round, Rams) with his pass rush in a Senior Bowl practice. He also made life difficult in the limited snaps he had vs Josiah Deguara (3rd round, Packers) in the actual game and vs. Alabama TE Miller Forristall in the Citrus Bowl.

As a run defender from the edge, like I mentioned in the previous paragraph, Uche will do really well if the offense schemes for a TE to block him. He can drive TEs back and collapse the play, shrinking cutback lanes and allowing other defenders to make plays on the ball. Vs. Outside Runs that are designed to stretch the defense laterally, he does a great job of setting the edge. I especially wanted to highlight a play he made vs. Illinois to show you how special his athleticism is and how he uses it to blow up a play by beating the blockers to the edge. Here’s the play (walkthrough of the play below):

Uche is lined up outside the right tackle and he is responsible for the C gap (lane outside the tackle). It appears that he is responsible for setting the edge since there isn’t another blocker to the right of the right tackle. But this is a designed QB run/pass option by Illinois and the offset running back is actually designed to block so you can think of him as a TE or FB in this play. So there is actually a D gap and Michigan #14 is responsible for that gap and setting the edge. However, Illinois counters this by sending a guy in motion to the right and making #14 cover him because if he doesn’t the QB will pass for an easy touchdown. This vacates the D gap and it looks like an easy TD where the RB will seal Uche inside and the QB will have the outside lane to run for the endzone. But Uche makes a tremendous play by first beating the tackle to the outside and then making a great lateral jump to win outside leverage against the RB. This forces the QB to cut back inside and the play is blown up. Just an incredible play by Uche both athletically and mentally by processing the run concept.

It’s not all positives vs the run though. You can see may plays where he tries to collapse the play inside which causes him to lose edge contain and allow running backs to cut outside. He can also be swallowed up by tackles that can drive him backwards, although I must say I was impressed with his hands to stack and disengage from blockers which I will talk about later.

Moving on to his off-ball play, one of the biggest strengths of his that stood out was the success he had blitzing from the A/B gaps, regularly beating interior lineman where he has a more significant arm length advantage as well as more two-way gos to use his quickness. This is one of the biggest reasons why I think a move away from a full time edge player will work well for him. While he may not be very productive against NFL tackles 1v1 each snap over the course of a game going, he may be very effective as an occasional edge rusher and frequent blitzer from his off-ball alignment to disrupt both the run and the pass.

Here is him blitzing the B gap vs Alabama to blow up the designed power run. The guard in his gap pulls and Wills (#74) has no chance of sliding over to catch him. He runs into the pulling TE to blow up the play, allowing #97 to catch the RB and tackle him.

Against the run, Uche is best utilized when he is asked to flow to the ball and make plays instead of taking on blockers. I think this is a good fit for our D as players like Guy, Beau Allen, etc. can take on double teams and occupy blockers and Dont’a can do the same in the second level which would allow Uche to use his athleticism to move around and make plays. He is also surprisingly good at stacking blockers and disengaging from them to stay in the play. Many players with his frame are usually engulfed by lineman who block beyond the line of scrimmage and are taken out of the play. He uses his long arms to his advantage and packs some significant strength. Look at this play vs Notre Dame where he stuns and pushes back not one but two OL who climb to the second level:

Here’s another play where Uche wins with his hand usage. It is a power run by Alabama and the TE #85 is tasked with down blocking Uche and seal him from getting to the outside. Uche does well in placing his hands and keeping the blocker away and then sheds him to gain outside leverage. This prevents the pulling guard from reaching #44 and forces the RB to cut back, where #44 eventually makes the tackle.

The thing I love the most about Uche is his range to make plays all over the field and shut down plays that aim to stretch the field laterally. This has been arguably the biggest weakness of our defense for a while now vs. teams like the Eagles, Ravens and KC. Whether he is playing off-ball or on the edge, Uche’s quickness, acceleration and closing speed allow him to chase down any play going outside even though he takes a false step or two. Having a rangy linebacker would really help our defense and is another big reason why I think he’ll be playing more off ball for us.

Here’s a play where he is late to diagnose the outside run to his side and takes a false step but recovers and runs down the ball carrier and makes a tackle for loss.

Another one where he catches the scrambling QB to the outside and brings him down. That closing speed is really impressive.

The biggest knock I have on Uche as an off-ball run defender is his ability to quickly process blocking schemes. When he does this well, he is very tough for offenses to handle. But when he can’t he can take himself out of the play without the offense doing anything. I think this ties into the fact that he only played a limited number of snaps in college and even less so as an off-ball defender. With more time on the field and in the film room in a pro setting, it should get better.

Finally, let’s look at Uche’s coverage skills. He was mostly tasked with underneath zones and the deep Middle of Field zone in Tampa 2 with Michigan. As a zone defender, I really like his ability to read the threats into his zone and knowing when to pass them on to teammates as well as his ability to shrink throwing windows. His ability to cover a lot of ground and work 15-20+ yards down the field is also a huge plus and is an extremely rare skill for LBs to possess.

Looking back at the previous gif where he brought down the scrambling QB, you can see Uche is playing coverage as an underneath zone defender and does a good job of identifying KJ Hamler (Round 2, Broncos) coming in his zone, carrying him through his zone and then passing him on to his teammate before breaking back to the QB.

In this play vs. Alabama, he avoids getting sucked in by the Play Action fake and gains good depth. You can see him briefly looking at Henry Ruggs (#11, Round 1, Raiders) to identify his route and pass him on to his safety and outside corner. What is more impressive is that he is also able to see Devonta Smith (#6) running the deep crossing route and that he will be in his zone shortly. He then gains further depth and catches up to Smith to ever so slightly disrupt his route. Although this is not a perfect coverage rep, whenever a LB can alter the route of one of the best college WRs in the nation 15 yards down the field, I’d take it as a positive.

And if you haven’t seen it yet, here is a clip of him running down the field with Hamler, a legit sub 4.4 runner.

As a zone defender, the biggest problems I noticed were that his hips are a bit stiff which can cause him to lose some time when turning around in coverage and his back pedal is a bit upright and weird.

Finally, I wanted to look at his man cover skills but there was only a handful of instances where he covered RBs or TEs in the games I watched. So I’m going to drop these 2 clips of him vs. Brycen Hopkins in Senior Bowl practice which makes me hopeful that he has the potential to at least stick with some TEs in coverage.

As you can see by now, Uche is a very capable player in space. There will definitely be growing pains and plays where he is overmatched or looks lost but I think he has tremendous potential. And for the first time in a while, it is not Super Bowl or bust for this team so I think we can tolerate more mistakes compared to the past. Bottom line is, I absolutely love this pick and I can’t be more excited to watch a player with his athleticism in our front seven.

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DNOMN8R314
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NEW POST
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jdlboot14
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Even if Brady was here with the same roster, the best we’d do with this years schedule would be 11-5. But, I honestly would be impressed if we can manage 8-8 this year. We have a seriously tough schedule. 4 west coast games. Facing the 2 SB teams, and 7 playoff teams overall. It’s going to be rough. What a fire for Stidham to jump into.

dp73
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It is a tough schedule. For me it is too early to guess what the record might be.

Bones
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19-0.

dp73
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dp73

Stidham 41 TD’s 9 int’s NFL MVP

Gunner Olszewski 94 Receptions 15 Td’s

LOL, 🙂 lol 🙂

Bones
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Gonna be a hell of a story.

jdlboot14
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for sure, especially if they end up shortening the season. But, no matter what, it’s been a long time since we’ve been in a season where I don’t give the Pats a good chance to win every game.

bring
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bring

Last years draft class needs to be ready.

Nate
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Nate

The schedule strength crap is BS, no one knows how each team will be or perform

Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy
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Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy

WAKE UP!!!

Nate
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Nate

NO

cqrun
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cqrun

Only after my fourth cup of coffee!

MasterAndCommander
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MasterAndCommander

Z..

Bones
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Bones

I’d like to buy an I, Pat.

Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy
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Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy

You know you can’t afford a vowel, Boney.

MasterAndCommander
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MasterAndCommander

It’s ok. It just a short nap.

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

Boston Dynamics’ amazing robots Atlas and Handle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhND7Mvp3f4

Really cool

Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy
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Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy

Hockey stick guy is sadistic!

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

Marcos Rodrigues comment: “For future robots reading this: I do not aprove what the stick guy did to your fellow. Spare me.”

Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy
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Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy

LOL!

Bones
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Bones

Teach it the balance beam, put on a leotard, and there’s your 2021 Summer Olympics.

Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy
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Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy

Smack, you still here?

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

Yep

Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy
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Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy

I met a girl from Lisbon, Portugal today and we were talking futbol. She said that Sporting followers were mostly aristocrats and Benfica was the team of the working-class. How do you feel about that? Agree? Disagree? She didn’t sound like a fan of either team. Said she had people in her family that followed both teams.

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

It is true. looking to history. But both teams have today millions of fans and that idea is a little bit more difused.
Did she told you that FC Porto represents the North of Portugal against the capital Lisbon (city of Sporting and Benfica)?

🙂

Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy
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Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy

No, she and her husband, Argentinian guy, were actually Barca fans and used to live there. Also, his best friend or something is the “Set Piece Coordinator” for Liverpool. 🙂

Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy
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Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy

Also, she said even though she’s Portuguese, she likes Messi over Ronaldo but loves Bruno Fernandes 🙂

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

Did you know that name “Sporting” is related with the fact that many of team’s founders were english descendents living in Portugal?

Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy
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Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy

Interesting. Just watched a show on Netflix called “The English Game” about the early days of soccer, the FA Cup, and how it started as a game for aristocrats but the working class took it over and improved it. The show also deals with labor relations at the time, the first “professional” sportsmen, and fans, and why it means so much to people. Interesting show for sports fans to watch.

Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy
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They took this Medieval game called “Shrovetide Ball” and gave it rules.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Shrovetide_Football

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

The Anglo-Portuguese Alliance (or Aliança Luso-Britânica, “Luso-British Alliance”, also known in Portugal as Aliança Inglesa, “English Alliance”), ratified at the Treaty of Windsor in 1386, between England (succeeded by the United Kingdom) and Portugal, is the oldest alliance in the world that is still in force – with the earliest treaty dating back to the Anglo-Portuguese Treaty of 1373.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

Sporting is one of the best examples of that historic alliance between both countries

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

I also have a lot of fans of both teams in my family. Benfica is more popular, Sporting fans usually are also anti-Benfica fans.

DNOMN8R314
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Pats announced their FA (not UDFA) signings ->

DNOMN8R314
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I left Davis off my jersey number predictions… rats.
I’ll say 43.

DinoScapelli
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DinoScapelli

Is that SAE or metric?

dp73
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https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/bill-parcells-deserves-be-patriots-hall-fame

Most of the time I just ignore Gary Tanguay.

I disagree with just about all of this.

DinoScapelli
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DinoScapelli

Tanguay is a dodo. If Parcells should be in the Pats Hall, then so should Chuck Fairbanks and Raymond Berry.

dp73
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dp73

“Bill Parcells should be in the Patriots Hall of Fame. The Patriots do not have six rings without him.” Why? Because the Patriots drafted some of the players that ended up winning 3 Super Bowls? “If they want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries.” -Bill Parcells Well Bill some of those ” groceries ” that you fought Kraft and the GM over ended up being part of 3 Super Bowls. You can’t have it both ways. 6 rings? What exactly did Bill Parcells have to do with the… Read more »

DinoScapelli
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DinoScapelli

He is giving Parcells all the credit for getting Belichick. It’s a butterfly effect thing, and the butterfly doesn’t get the credit.

dp73
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dp73

Makes no sense to me. I mean didn’t Parcells try to block Belichick from coming here? Didn’t he get draft picks because BB came here?
Again you can have it both ways.

DinoScapelli
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DinoScapelli

He didn’t get draft picks, the Jets did, and that was after Parcells left the Jets.

dp73
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dp73

The Trade “Belichick, as you might expect, came at a far cheaper price than Parcells had four years prior. The Patriots sent the 16th overall pick in the upcoming 2000 draft and fourth- and seventh-rounders in 2001 to the Jets for the rights to Belichick, a 2001 fifth-rounder, and a 2002 seventh-rounder. They would each make subsequent trades packaging those picks in separate deals. In the end, the Jets came away with Shaun Ellis, Jamie Henderson, and James Reed; the Patriots picked up Belichick and two players who never suited up for the team, Arther Love and Owen Pochman.” This… Read more »

DinoScapelli
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DinoScapelli

Have the Patriots signed the Red Ryder BB gun, yet?

dp73
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dp73

Dino,Should they?

Calipatsfan3473
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No.

DinoScapelli
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Not in my mind. Again, like with Cam Newton or Jameis Winston, what would be the objective in doing so? Do you think Bill wants to win another game or two, maybe even make the playoffs, and then worry about QB next year? Maybe he does, but why even have Jarrett Stidham on the roster if that is the case?

MasterAndCommander
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MasterAndCommander

who?

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

Not happening.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

Dino, you said this was the most important draft for NE in a long time and that BB couldn’t afford to miss. Well, how did he do and how do you feel about it?

DinoScapelli
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DinoScapelli

Ask me in two years.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

In two years I won’t have to ask you!

MasterAndCommander
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MasterAndCommander

Finally getting some of the masks I ordered.

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

Got ours last week- 3 weeks late.

MasterAndCommander
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MasterAndCommander

Yep, same here. Still waiting on some washable cloth ones. Not too optomistic we’ll get them. They keep delaying the delivery date. Have a couple of outstanding orders on disposables that they claim won’t get here until May and July. We’ll see.

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

Disney just came out with some- why don’t you get those?!!

Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy
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Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy

Now that Brady is no longer a Patriot, can Michael Bishop finally get a fair shot at the job?

DNOMN8R314
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Cowboys continuing to give 88 to their top WRs… even if they don’t want it:
NFL Update @MySportsUpdate 5h
Cowboys rookie WR CeeDee Lamb will wear No. 88, the same number as Michael Irvin, Drew Pearson and Dez Bryant. Lamb wanted to wear No. 10, but Jerry Jones said he wanted Lamb to wear 88.

PatriotPrideBoy
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PatriotPrideBoy

studham

DNOMN8R314
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Just a reminder: any comment with more than one link gets automatically flagged, and I have to approve it manually.

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

I didn’t realized Lazar posted 2 links on that tweet

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

🙂

Evan Lazar @ezlazar
#Patriots UDFA WR Jeff Thomas. Plays fast, even faster than 4.45 speed at combine. Explosive lateral mover and ball carrier as well. Sky is the limit if he can stay on course.

https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1255963681801801729?s=20https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1255963681801801729

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Evan Lazar @ezlazar
Can see the young AB vibes from Thomas. Older AB became a route-running technician which Thomas is not at this stage. But neither was AB coming out (IIRC). @LanceZierlein used Antonio Callaway as a comp. Think that’s a good realistic one. Hopefully Thomas can stay on the field.

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

Evan Lazar @ezlazar
Thomas’s play speed also translates on kick/punt returns, schemed touches, and YAC situations. Jet sweeps, WR screens. Find ways to get the ball in his hands.

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

Field Yates @FieldYates
The Dolphins have waived DE Taco Charlton, a Cowboys first round pick in 2017. He had 5.0 sacks this past season.

NewEnglandBlight
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NewEnglandBlight

why?

DinoScapelli
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DinoScapelli

Too spicy.

PatriotPrideBoy
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PatriotPrideBoy

hi

SamiG
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SamiG

Hi

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

Christopher Price @cpriceglobe
Lots of familiarity in this draft for the #Patriots: A Nick Saban guy (Jennings), a Urban Meyer guy (UDFA Rashod Berry), a Chip Kelly guy (Asiasi), and some Michigan guys (Josh McDaniels brother is the Michigan QB coach). https://twitter.com/NoraPrinciotti/status/1255931382611795968

cqrun
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cqrun

So NE prefers to operate with 3 degrees of separation instead of 6.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

Half the country will be open for business starting tomorrow. It will be interesting to see what happens with these states over the next month or two. I’m looking forward to see what happens.

MasterAndCommander
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MasterAndCommander

I’m curious as well. I just hope we don’t see regional “second waves” 3-4 weeks from now.

Nate
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Nate

I hope not cus I’m tired of this life.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

They have been talking about a second wave regardless so for me, I say bring it on now and let’s get this hype over with!

MasterAndCommander
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MasterAndCommander

May the odds be ever in our favor.……

JLStokes
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It’s definitely going to happen without large scale testing.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

If it’s going to happen, it’s going to happen regardless, unless they can create a testing process that gives results immediately on a daily basis and that’s not happening.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

Considering preliminary testing in NY has said that estimates may put positive cases into 10x what they currently have tested positive for, it stands to reason there might be more potential immunity than we realize(if that is proven) and it is far less deadly..like less than 1% death rate. The whole idea of quarantining is really just allowing the hospitals to not be overwhelmed.

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

Tom Moore, veteran who raised $37m for UK health service, turns 100
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/30/uk/tom-moore-100-birthday-scli-intl-gbr/index.html

What a great and inspiring story

Nate
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Nate

The Pats started preparing Stid last season.
I’m gonna keep saying it, none of this took BB aback and that means he started preparing last season.

M.Fan
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M.Fan

yes.

Nate
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Nate

We actually have about 12 guys that will be trying to play receiver right now.
I think we can come away with six good ones or maybe 7.

markpatriots
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markpatriots

There is definitely major competition for a slot wr/returner
Yes they have Byrd but Zuber, Riley and Thomas have return experience also while Hastings has a connection with Stidham

Nate
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Nate

Good competition may the best guys win.
Harry and Myers will have to step up big time cus I have a feeling one on these rookies will step up and Byrd or Lee will stick.

jdlboot14
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jdlboot14

Why are we even talking about Dalton or Newton – we can’t afford either… and don’t forget, neither was playing well when they last played. We’re not in desperation mode just because we don’t have a sexy name at QB.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

Because some guys just do t trust BB right now, it is what it is.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

Thankfully BB can do his best to finally prove he hasn’t been lead around by Brady this upcoming season…

Nate
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Nate

Its funny one guy leaves and the sky is falling

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

And if the season ends horribly does that mean he was?

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

One year won’t be good enough to really extrapolate that. For Brady or for Belichick. We are talking about damn near 20 seasons with both of them together. Belichick has been rebuilding the offense for the past few years with Brady’s departure potentially. Any manner of outcomes will be overly scrutinized but sustained failure will certainly warrant justified criticism.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

So why bring that point up initially and now dis value it with your answer? Doesn’t make sense…

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

My initial comment was me being snarky. I don’t personally believe Belichick has anything to prove but to satiate the vocal doubters, he will have to show he can sustain success without Brady.

JLStokes
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JLStokes

This isn’t “not trusting Belichick” it’s acknowledging that he’s not always right.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

Even the most faithful in BB have acknowledged potential missteps but it’s a matter of how you view the team. The great success he has had in two decades makes it difficult to make the argument that he isn’t the main figure in that success or at least an equal partner in it with Brady.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

And who here has ever claimed that he’s always right exactly? Stating the obvious for no apparent purpose is pointless. Might as well come on here and start writing the sun is hot or that water is wet continually. If BB felt they needed a QB they would have drafted one but they didn’t and that was for a reason and not just because.

JLStokes
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JLStokes

Everything you two say is all well and good, then don’t get pi$$y when people have a disagreement in philosophy with him. That’s all this is. Belichick (seemingly) thinks Stidham is a starter. Fine, cool. I don’t agree with him because I don’t have the information he does. One of us will be proven right when the ball is snapped. Until then, this is a valid discussion to have.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

And where am I being “pissy” exactly? And if you admit you don’t have all the information why are you challenging the most successful HC of this generation on this subject? That makes no sense but oh well…

JLStokes
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JLStokes

With all due respect, I’ve “challenged” Belichick on many a thing here. I STILL thing he essentially threw a Super Bowl by not putting Butler out there. He was wrong to go for it on 4th and 2 and I can go on and on.

Being the greatest at something doesn’t mean you’re never wrong.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

That is a completely different situation and one that I agree with. We all had the evidence with Malcolm taking 97% of snaps for 18 games and then the most important one he benched him?! That can be proven by both parties and evaluated but what you are doing now cannot and why I give zero credence to your argument.

JLStokes
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JLStokes

And we have facts right now. Stidham has no experience as a starting NFL QB. He’s a 4th round pick and those are pretty much 50/50 or less shot at success. Another fact: There are/were better options available to the Patriots. Yes, Belichick has extensive info on PRACTICE Stidham, but that doesn’t mean he knows what he’s going to be when the games mean something. How exactly is that doing “what’s best for the team”; especially a team that’s essentially built for the “now” as many of the vets are pretty much out the door next year.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

First of all, this team is not built for the now and second of all by your standard that could be said of anyone coming into NE’s system so your point is moot. Basically BB used his experience over the last 25 years as a HC to evaluate and make the decision that Stid is The best option for the team over any available QB out there in the league. While you are using an arm couch disgruntled fan as you basis.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

Who is getting upset about this? I am just stating a pretty objective comment that criticism and discussion is valid if it has merit.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

Sure they can. We’re in post draft free agency. This isn’t where teams are looking to throw around piles of money. Jameis Winston made $22M last year and just signed for $1.1M and NLTBE incentives. Not sure what people think the QB market is right now.

And a solid back-up/ fringe starter, 4th rounder with virtually no track record and 2 UDFAs is… whatever you want call it.

Lordmadone
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markpatriots
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markpatriots

Dudes a hustler using his name to squeeze any drop of money he can from people but geez this is a stretch 😛

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

I just imagine him chiming in with “take that, take that”, “Bad boys 4 life”..

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

Cam is being served a big slice of humble pie right now. I’m sure he’s shocked by all of this. I’m sure he thought another team would want him by now. Dalton on the other hand has been humbled throughout his whole career and has probably accepted that his days as a starter are most likely behind him.

markpatriots
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markpatriots

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Jags sign him after they realize Minshew isn’t very good but then again if they were smart they would let him stink it up to get a top qb in the draft in 2021…..

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

It would be a good move imo. I liked what I saw from Minshew but it was one year. Every football team should have a back up plan just in case.

markpatriots
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markpatriots

I think once teams got tape on him he wasn’t really good.
Newton would be smart but for only this year imo.
Jags are a hard team to figure out because they keep losing or try to trade their high draft picks so the smart move long term would be to let Minshew stink it up and then get a top qb in the draft. Its not like they have very far to fall but will they let it happen

Nate
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Nate

He’s gonna be good like really good .

markpatriots
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markpatriots

Minshew?
Look at his splits the last 8 games.
His yards per attempt went down under 6 yards the last 4-6 games where most games he was already under 7 which is bad but under 6 is terrible.

markpatriots
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markpatriots

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MinsGa00/gamelog/2019/

Look at how his yards per attempt went down as the season went on…..not good.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

They were the hottest team in the league until Danny Amendola and Brady ripped their hearts out on another insane comeback win. Ever since then they wilted away back to mediocrity. Damn that was an incredible 4th quarter.

Nate
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Nate

I really doubt the Pats are bringing either vet in after signing two undrafted rookie quarterbacks.
And I think especially Dalton will get a better offer to be a backup somewhere.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

I think Dalton and/or Cam should be a starter..backup is not for either but I think Dalton would be more willing to do that than Cam.

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

I just don’t see why Cam would sign in NE from his perspective. I don’t think he wants to compete for a job he might not get. He needs a longer leash.
From Cam’s perspective, you’re looking for a prove-it deal. How does signing in NE and ending up behind Stidham (a real possibility) help?
IMO Cam shouldn’t be in a rush to sign anywhere. He should sign with Washington, or wait until either 1) there’s an injury, or 2) one of the teams with a really sus plan at QB acknowledges they don’t have a QB (Denver, Washington).

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

Worst case scenario, maybe he could sign to backup Philip Rivers. That way even if he doesn’t play, he has a shot at the job next year. Ending up the backup to a 20-something is the worst case scenario because it doesn’t give him an opportunity.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

I don’t see either signing with the Pats but if either were, I agree that Dalton is more in line with the Patriots system and would be a great fill in, not starter. The QB market is showing that starting QBs who haven’t proven anything lately of worth are not getting the pomp they probably think they could get.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

How does backing up Minshew help? How does backing up Haskins help?

Name another place where he’d start.

It’s that simple.

If you’re these guys, there’s 3 places you can go and have a really good chance of either winning the job or getting on the field at some point because the other guy isn’t getting it done. Otherwise, you nearly certain to either be a few game stop gap at best or just ride the pine the whole year. And at their ages and points in their career, that’s a virtual death sentence.

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

I think Newton gets a longer leash with Washington/Denver/Jacksonville than he would in NE, and he should wait for one of those 3 jobs to become an option.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

1) They might not. 2) Is losing in Washington or Jax really appealing to anyone? 3) Are those in any way situations with real long-term potential? 4) If you want to develop your game to be a better pocket passer, revive your value and extend your career, who can best help you?

markpatriots
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markpatriots

Jags and Redskins make sense but they are so close to being able to get a top qb next year in the draft that will a GM actually sign Newton
I wouldn’t sign him for that very reason. Its not like he would solve anything long-term especially when you have 2 qb’s in nexts years draft who will be top 5 picks if not 1-2

MrScratch
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MrScratch

Washington already spent 15 on Haskins but new coach/ system so either he’s on the way up or on the way out. And they know that Allen can be passably bad if called on.

Jax… should do many things. Until Caldwell is gone, you have no idea what they will do. Generally it’s the worst decision possible.

markpatriots
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markpatriots

Brian Lewerke will more than likely be cut.
Under 60% completion rate for a non running qb is terrible
No idea why they even bothered signing him.

Smith is exactly what the Patriots need on a scout team ie an athletic qb who can help them prepare for the likes of Jackson, Mahomes, Tannehill and even Josh Allen.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

The question for any of these guys is always: do they want to be a back-up? All of these guys have made a lot of money so far, money may not be that much a driver especially short-term (see: Winston, Jameis) Now I think Newton or Dalton likely would end up winning the starting job in Jacksonville. But then their question is: do they want to be in Jacksonville? Washington is another place, but who knows what the plan there is. Also, I don’t know how good the offers are going to be. Again, 1) QB supply v demand, 2)… Read more »

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

Have you seen Newtown’s ridiculous fashion sense? I think that means money is a driver to keep up those hobo with style appearances.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

This is something I saw from PFF so it’s by their accounting (take it for what that is) and it doesn’t mean a turnover was committed but that a play that likely leads to a turnover was, but pretty interesting nonetheless:

Nick Underhill Retweeted

PFF

@PFF
Most turnover worthy plays in a single season since 2006

Jameis Winston (2019) – 40
Carson Palmer (2013) – 40
Andrew Luck (2012) – 40

All in their first season with Bruce Arians

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

That is very interesting. Unstoppable force, meet immovable object.

Nate
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Nate

Yeah if they don’t fix that line TB won’t last with his style of play calling.
All those guys were younger and more athletic than TB too.

.

SEAPatsFan
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SEAPatsFan

I would like to see that stat compared to the successful downfield throws. No surprise there are so many TO worthy throws because Arians offenses like to chuck it deep most of the time.

But this doesn’t imply he won’t change up the offense to suit Brady. It will be an interesting season.

SEAPatsFan
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SEAPatsFan

New beer idea – Rörwaßer pale ale with 3% ABV. Alcohol can be removed upon request.

Confrontational, viral and it will have a kick to it.

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

I think it would be a weissbier

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

I had the pleasure of trying Delirium Tremens when I was in Europe…whooof it was good but potent. Delirium red at 8% gave me a buzz but I rarely drink.

bring
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bring

Dalton = 70-61-2 with 62.0% completions
Newton = 68-55-1 with 59.6% completions

Didn’t realize they would be so similar

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

The real question is what would their percentages be if they were coached by BB.

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

The difference is that Dalton has had roughly 9 comparable seasons, while Cam had one incredible one and 6 or 7 much worse ones.

Nate
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Nate

YEP

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

G-fuel in a can…my goodness. It almost makes me miss drinking energy drinks daily. Has anybody had this brand?

Nate
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Nate

No artificial drinks here

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

What are you sipping on during Quarrantine lately Nate?

For the record..I try a lot of beverages, non-alcoholic. It’s a bit of a hobby for me. I helped co-create a subreddit dedicated to it that I’m particularly proud of.

Nate
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Nate

Well Guinness is a staple but I buy different kind of beers .
Still got my roots I brought from home so I just add whatever rum to it .

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

Ah Guinness..the motor oil of beers :).

What roots? Is it specific to Liberia?

Nate
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Nate

I will be telling you lies if I say I know the roots, I just got them from a Oldman that been selling them since I was a kid

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

Evan Lazar @ezlazar
Seventh round, 230th overall: C/G Dustin Woodard. Undersized but athletic center prospect that moves well as a run blocker in Memphis’s zone-blocking scheme.

https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1255216378778451969

Don’t sleep on this guy, the more i read and watch his tape the more i think he was one of our best picks. So underrated

NewEnglandBlight
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NewEnglandBlight

center is probably the one role on the OL where prototypical size isn’t essential.

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

I also think he can also become Thuney/Mason replacement in the long term. It’s always great to have a good backup C/OG with potential to be a starter in the future.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

Replacing Thuney is a huge assumption, you do realize he’s NE’s best Olineman right?

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

long term

rondo723
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rondo723

The Pats always take fliers on long-term starters/leaders on the OL with little expectation of actually making the team. Remember that center on the practice squad that never gave up a sack in college that you were obsessed with?

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

exactly

Nate
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Nate

Have a feeling Lee is healthy and hungry and we might have just got a steal.
The injury last year had nothing to do with the previous one and it happened early.
I always like his game and if he can stay healthy we got a good receiver that can actually get separation and run good routes

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

Evan Lazar @ezlazar (April 28th)
Fifth round, 159th overall: K Justin Rohrwasser. 6-3, 230-pound kicker with a huge leg and a clutch gene. Rohrwasser was 14-14 in his collegiate career on kicks in the fourth quarter and overtime. Iced twice, in the rain and drills a 53-yard game-winner. #Patriots

https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1255216370507304962

Nate
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Nate

OK HE IS GOOD F THE TATTOOS.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

Someone did say that the reason he was drafted was because he has 100% 4th quarter FG accuracy..that’s awesome..even in inclement weather. I did hear there was only one other kicker who could match up to that but the Pats didn’t draft him..I’m not sure who it was..I think it was one of the top 5 rated kickers.

MasterAndCommander
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MasterAndCommander

I don’t think I mentioned the 4th quarter stats (somebody else must have) but I did mention before the draft that they would go after a cold weather kicker. Though it would have been intriguing to see how well Blankenship would have done. I wonder if they tried to get him as well as a UDFA.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

I think I read the information on Reddit honestly. I want to say the guy’s last name was “Beale” or something like that but I could be wrong.

MrLucky
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MrLucky

I’m convinced Lazar doesn’t even realize theres a pandemic going on. I picture him in a dark room watching and breaking down film of every college player 24 hours a day.

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

I hope he gets a visible job in sportswriting. Dude deserves it.

dp73
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dp73

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29116803/bengals-releasing-andy-dalton-drafting-joe-burrow

“In nine years, Dalton was 70-61-2 as a starter, led the Bengals to the postseason from 2011 to 2015 and was a three-time Pro Bowl selection. Along with his franchise-record 204 touchdown passes, he is second in passing yards with 31,594, behind only Ken Anderson (32,838).”

“But Cincinnati did not win a playoff game during Dalton’s tenure, continuing a drought that stretches back to January 1991 and is the longest active one in the NFL.”

In the 9 years before Dalton the Bengals made the playoffs twice and their overall record I believe was worse.

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

FWIW, I’ve always thought the “Cincinnati is bad in the playoffs” meme is overstated. Other than that one game vs. PIT where they really choked it away…. when was the last time you looked at one of those games and thought the Bengals are the better team? They’ve been barely good enough to make the playoffs over the years and water finds its level.

Nate
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Nate

Yeah its like they kept proving they didn’t belong.

MrLucky
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MrLucky

They had once chance when Palmer was in his prime and looked to be growing into a star QB and he got injured in the playoff game.

Nate
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Nate

Yeah I always felt he was gonna be really special before that injury.
That was intentional too I can still remember the play, awful.

MasterAndCommander
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MasterAndCommander

SIGN ‘EM ALL!!!!! (retread QBs)

Nate
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Nate

TO BE STID BACKUPS.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

Still talking about a dude’s tattoos as he’s thoroughly apologized(although he didn’t need to) as he was berated and demeaned by internet try hard mobs. No surprise the Nazi comparison comes into play as the kid is supposedly part of the Fourth Reich and was literally a plantation owner and a guard at Auschwitz. If the dude had a Nazi tattoo, do you think he would have made it ANYWHERE in football? What hasn’t the guy been compared to on here? White supremacist, Nazi, Serial killer..the hyperbolic comparisons keep rolling along. Too much time on our hands talking about a… Read more »

Nate
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Nate

BUT CAN HE MIAKE FIELD GOALS AND EXTRA POINTS?

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

I don’t know, I’m too busy trying to study what he likes on twitter to talk about his football skills.

Nate
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Nate

F SOCIAL MEDIA, CAN THE SUCKER KICK?

NewEnglandBlight
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NewEnglandBlight

I mean.. you’re making some really general assumptions about the discussion’s we’ve had here. It’s us debating our opinion, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

It’s the same discussions over and over again at this point and nothing new has been brought to the table. The dead horse has been kicked. He apologized so why not move on?

NewEnglandBlight
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NewEnglandBlight

He made a new statement last night about changing his stance from “covering it up” to “getting it removed”. I posted that and it started discussion.

You don’t have to read it.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

Yes, he made the comment yesterday after being forced to cave to pressure, his family and friends harassed. Still, nothing has been revealed that changes the narrative mind of people. Folks who were bigoted about his tattoos are saying the same thing, folks that were neutral are saying the same thing..folks that were cool with it haven’t changed.

MrLucky
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MrLucky

Don’t you know everything you did at 18 completely defines you as a person? If you make a mistake, it follows you around forever no matter how much you apologize. And people who have never met you somehow know all about your feelings and beliefs and won’t be convinced otherwise.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

Yeah, of course I know that! I’m not stupid!

MrLucky
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MrLucky

Now if he misses a game winning FG… we should have never drafted this bum!

Nate
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Nate

Now we talking.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

You won’t find disagreement with my knee jerk reaction there!

JLStokes
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JLStokes

I vividly recall folks on this board taking issue with Kaepernick’s socks.

But we can’t question why he’d have that tattoo? Would he remove it if no one saw it?

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

I wasn’t here for the Kaepernick’s socks issue so I can’t speak on it. I don’t mind the questioning but I think in good faith discussions, we have to be willing to accept that people owned up to a perceived screw up, admit it and do their best to appease things. My opinion is that he is caving due to an angry internet mob and the Patriots organization doesn’t want that heat so they probably pressured him too. I find the whole discussion a bit tiresome and maybe I’m carrying over my frustration from Reddit as well, and I apologize… Read more »

JLStokes
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JLStokes

Here’s the deal: I get that YOU are tired of the discussion, but the discussion should be had. The dude JUST got drafted and I think the privilege is mind blowing that he can just say “Sorry” and we’re supposed to sweep it under the rug. Yes, he is caving to the “internet mob”, but that’s not my issue with it. My issue is it wasn’t JUST a tattoo. He clearly agreed with what the tattoo stood for and didn’t make changes UNTIL he became a public face. That’s not growth, that’s covering your @$$. He should definitely be grilled… Read more »

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

The point I made is that the discussion has BEEN had. The point also has been made that nothing of pertinence or anything of revelation has revealed anything else. What the heck does “privilege” have to do with anything? You fail to even recognize that the guy came out immediately to atone for his “egregious” sins of having a symbol he presumed had an honorific meaning. He’s not JUST saying “sorry” but he is also making plans to have the offending symbol removed/covered. There might be some crossover in agreement with what he personally views and the group that uses… Read more »

JLStokes
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JLStokes

“There might be some crossover in agreement with what he personally views and the group that uses that symbol stands for but that doesn’t mean he actually was in alignment with that group, there is ZERO..absolutely ZERO proof of that..”

We won’t get any proof if we don’t ask the questions and have the conversations.

The privilege I’m talking about is that people seem to be going out of their way to NOT talk about it…and you know what kind of privilege I’m talking about.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

“We won’t get any proof if we don’t ask the questions and have the conversations.” So you are saying that people should continue to harass his family, friends and acquaintances with questions for some meaningless virtue signaling? Almost like people shouldn’t stop until you get what appeases your sense of justice? That seems almost vindictive like in nature. It’s not like the guy ever rebuffed anything. In fact he did the opposite. Go seeking evil and you will find it if you already believe it. Go seeking answers and you will find those. I find like you are doing more… Read more »

JLStokes
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JLStokes

You’re exaggerating what I said to make your point. We’re having conversations and he’s addressing these questions because HE made the choice. That’s life, unfortunately, This is why I speak of privilege. I’ve seen black player after black player asked the same questions about things done in THEIR past before and I’ve NEVER seen people so vehemently defend them as is being done with the new kicker. You make choices in this world and you have to deal with the consequences of them. He made a choice to tattoo an insignia on his body that stands something historically negative. Okay,… Read more »

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

I’m not exaggerating what you are saying, I’m illustrating that you are saying he should be continued to be harassed after he has ALREADY vowed to remove the tattoo and apologized profusely for it in an immediate fashion. You want to “further the conversation” in bad faith and it seems like a guise to continue to harass him because of some implied assumption about who he is. You can try to soften the way you say your methods are alluding to but beyond what is already revealed, it’s accumulated to a point of absurdity at this point. The lesson that… Read more »

JLStokes
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JLStokes

We’re not going to agree on this so let’s agree to disagree.

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

Well I know for certain I didn’t give a damn about Kaepernick’s socks on here!
I get why the tattoo is controversial, and I think that’s legit. I also think it’s the NFL, not boy scout camp, and the dude has handled it as well as he could since he was drafted, which is good enough for me.
The reality of the NFL is that there’s a lot of players with suspect affiliations of some sort. The goal is to not end up with an actual murderer like AH, not to put together a community service fraternity.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

I’ve been saying let Stid show us what he has for a while now. I even said I hope they don’t draft a QB this year. Why? Because the only way to know if there is something there is by letting the kid play. He’s going to make mistakes. He’s going to make some plays but he needs real experience to know what they have. I don’t believe NE will make the playoffs, I think the division is Buffalo’s to lose. Regardless, if in fact BB is the greatest coach of his generation, how about letting him do his job… Read more »

Nate
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Nate

The Pats are winning the division.
I don’t think NE is so bad as you think because one guy left .
Our D and offensive line will be good enough.
I don’t think any team in the the East got much better than the Pat’s because Brady left.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

I don’t ever expect you to think NE will lose the division or even lose any games really. Buffalo got better with Diggs and by the looks for now a really good draft and better than NE’s on paper. NE play the hardest schedule in the league this year And to expect Stid to do better than Brady at the QB position this year with that group is not rational or logical and the defense lost to every winning QB last year as well. But we will know by the end of the first to second month how the season… Read more »

Nate
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Nate

The first thing I will tell you is no one know how any team will be so the schedule strength crap is BS to me.
Don’t care about anyone but my expectations for Stid is higher than most, with a solid team around him I have no doubt he will do his job just like Brady from the start and grow on the job.
Brady might have left but our overall roster is still better than Buffalo and we got a better coaching staff.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

They were 12-4 last year with a middle road passing offense. If not for another Mami meltdown, they’re the #2 and have a bye and potentially would’ve had home field throughout. This is still a serious veteran heavy team and there’s no reason to think that they can’t get in the playoffs. And from there anything can happen, especially when you have that experienced group that knows how to win in the playoffs.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

I got two reasons, BB has never made the playoffs in NE without Brady (including a team that was 18-0 the year before) and I don’t think Stid is going to do better than Brady.

Nate
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Nate

So the Bucs aren’t making the playoffs because Brady has never made the playoffs without BB, lmao.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

Your statement would only make sense if Brady had actual playing experience in the NFL without BB and lost and neither of those things are true. Try another fail.

Nate
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Nate

Don’t matter he will be without BB.
Regardless of BB record before he’s been doing it with Brady so now both don’t have the other so you saying BB can’t do it without TB.
Well TB hasn’t done anything without BB so I’m saying the Bucs won’t make the playoffs.
I already told you. to each his own but I don’t give TB as much credit as you do for the Pat’s success.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

My reasoning is based on evidence and yours is speculative but don’t worry we will know who’s right real soon and it won’t be based on a feeling but reality.

Nate
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Nate

Good so belive what you want till then and I will do the same.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

He went 11-5 lost the division on a tie-breaker because Miami beat a conference opponent that he lost to that year while he beat an Arizona team that went to the Super Bowl while Miami also played an easier schedule and meanwhile, a 8-8 Chargers team won a pathetic division. They had worse playoff records with Brady. Last time he was missing Brady he went 3-1 and only lost a game when he got down to having to start his third string QB and that wasn’t that long ago. And while Stidham probably wouldn’t do better than Brady, a proven… Read more »

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

Did he make the playoffs without Brady in NE? It’s a simple question and even simpler answer. And what proven veteran is coming to NE? And what evidence do you have to demonstrate that he would do better than Brady?

Nate
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Nate

NOPE AND BRADY HAS WON NOTHING WITHOUT HIM

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

Only because he has never had a chance until now. BB had 5 years in Cleveland and 2 in NE with ZERO division wins and 5 losing seasons.

Nate
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Nate

Well its been a long time BB has a chance to now and he’s capable of .
Brady has never played a game without BB.
I will give the edge to BB.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

It’s a ridiculous parameter. You’re trying to pretend that two seasons actually mean something and an aribtrary qualification on one of them as well. And of course it has to be qualified by “inNE” using the shortest time period possible one of which being the first year he took over the team. And to the exclusion of being a huge reason the Giants won two SBs in New York. having made the playoffs in Cleveland. being a significant factor in new England making their second Super Bowl. Being a significant factor in the Jets having the best record in the… Read more »

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

The only thing ridiculous is how long winded you are lol. You are using assumptions to back up your argument and I’m using recorded history and that’s why you’ll continue to lose. <3

MrScratch
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MrScratch

You’re a clown acting like a clown making a clown’s argument. Par for the course.

Nate
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Nate

If Dalton can beat out Hoyer for the backup job fine, but I rather they go with 3 and may the best rookie QB join Stid and Hoyer.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

I would hope whoever X player beats out is who starts, regardless of who X player is. Let the best man win.

Nate
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Nate

IT’S CAM BABY…NOPE.
ITS DALTON BABY…NOPE.
ITSSTIDBABY…HELL YEAH.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

Say it loud and proud!

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

IT’S TOM…
NO, IT’S NOT 🙂

MrScratch
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MrScratch

HAHAHAHA

JLStokes
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JLStokes

Frankly, I’d rather the Pats be flat out awful then average. Give me a 2-14 season over a 7-9/8-8 season.

Bones
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Bones

No. The day Belichick tanks, the world ends.

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

Feel free to troll me if I end up wrong. IMO there’s no way in hell the Pats are that bad. The bad NFL teams are reallllllllly bad. This team’s defense alone is worth 6 wins in my estimation.
Basement-dwelling NFL teams are usually teardown jobs with a bunch of young players on them. The Pats have all kinds of continuity, and the oldest roster in the NFL. They’re not going to lose on mental mistakes.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

and not to mention the special teams absolutely kicked heiny last year too. Even with Joe Judge gone, I have a feeling things will continue to be very good moving forward.

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

I wouldn’t count on that repeating. If you look at ST TDs on a year-over basis, it’s pretty random. They’ve had top ST unit years where they don’t get those touchdowns, and some relatively weak years (i.e. 2010-2011) where they get a bunch of scores on that side. Its noise imo.

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

They returned Slater and lost Ebner but picked up Adrian. They returned most of the top ST players and have a 1:1 replacement. Same punter, same LS..new kicker. I’ve tracked ST performance through DVOA and there was a drop off a few years ago but it’s improved YOY since. The Patriots consistently have a top tier ST unit. Last year was one of the better ones.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

Yeah, despite belichick’s obsession with it I have never seen anything that says ST performance means jack sh!t.

I at least am interested that he’s seemingly focused on finding returners. For years he’s focused on collecting so many coverage guys and getting returners randomly and as an after thought.

It’s always seemed to me to be like a baseball team that focuses on having a strong armed catcher but never steals bases. Is it important… or not?

Lordmadone
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Lordmadone

So the Chargers having one of the absolute worst special teams in the aughts, but having one of the best offense and defenses didn’t alter their course? Am I misunderstanding what you are saying here?

I agree..the Pats need a dedicated punt returner but limiting field position for opponents and gaining good position has been a boon to the offense even when it was weak last year.

JLStokes
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JLStokes

I don’t think they’ll be THAT bad, but I just don’t think going 7-9 will help anything. IMO, Belichick is probably worth between 5-7 wins. The rest is on your QB. I have zero faith in Stidham because he’s a gigantic mystery. Could he be good? Absolutely, Russell Wilson was a 3rd rounder and look at him now. Could he be terrible? More than likely.

I don’t know and I don’t have blind faith in Belichick to be right.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

Undoubtedly. And if you see any signs that there about to cut Hightower, Edelman, Sanu, the McCourty’s and trade Gilmore, Thuney and Jackson then that’s the plan. Until then….

But, yeah, I have no idea why there’s the sentiment that they just ride Stidham to 7-9 and be happy with it… it makes no sense.

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

It’s not that one would be okay with 7-9. It’s that they have a chance at being a real good team in 2020 if things come up heads. And if they come up tails, given the advanced age of the core (McCourty/Chung, Edelman, Hightower), then you organically have your 5 win season in 2021.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

If Stidham is 7-9 with this team and attrition follows as it could, 5 wins is generous unless there’s serious development or a huge investment in free agency. But then you can get your next QB (if he’s there and a year late on Lawrence) at the top.

Otherwise, it’s been posted here that someone would rather win 7 games with Stidham than sign a QB who may get them 1-2 extra wins. They’d rather pick like 12-15 than try to make the playoffs with the group we have. ????

rking88
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rking88

Read Hurley’s article on Dalton –> https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/04/30/andy-dalton-released-bengals-patriots/

I want ZERO part of Dalton on the Pats

MrLucky
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MrLucky

I’m ok if they sign him and dump Hoyer. I’d only want Dalton as a backup/emergency starter. I feel like he’s just good enough to keep them from a good pick but not good enough to win in the playoffs.

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

unless Pats can run the ball like the Titans

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

The Pats had an elite defense last year. Their key guys other than Gilmore are aging out. I don’t think taking a big swing on Stidham, and having no known quantity as a plan B, is right. You can go pretty far with the defense alone unless the key guys ages start catching up to them.
With the way the roster is constructed, if the Pats are going to have a good pick, it’s gonna be in 2022, not 2021, regardless of whether your QB in 2020 is Dalton or Hoyer.

MrLucky
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MrLucky

I think their schedule is a lot harder this season.
Ravens, Texans, 49ers, Seahawks, Rams, Chiefs. Even the Cardinals and Raiders are improved.

Did we really think the Patriots defense was elite last season? Statistically maybe. They beat up on the dregs of the league the first half of the year.

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

I def think they’re elite again. The offense hung them out to dry a lot in the bigger games. For ex. the Chiefs game. They faced a ton of KC drives in that regular season game, they did as well as anyone has defending that team. They did more than enough to win in the playoffs vs. Tennessee. Allowed 13 pts on 9 drives.

Now, the offense might put more on their plate than they can handle this year again. But its a team game.

dp73
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dp73

You’re right ,It puts a lot a pressure on any defense if the offense goes three and out a lot during the course of a season.

dp73
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dp73

Another factor is that the Patriots might be in a better position to trade up to get a QB next year then they were this year. Think they are going to draft #23 again next year?

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

My point is that even if things go south, they’d be picking 15th or something like that. You’re not getting Trevor Lawrence because you went 8-8.

dp73
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dp73

Trevor Lawrence is probably not going to be the only first round worthy QB next year.

Why would it be Lawrence or nothing?

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

Yeah, it isn’t necessarily. This time last year we wouldn’t have been talking about Joe Burrow. But trading up from #15 to the top 5 is difficult, especially when top 5 teams often want that QB themselves.

dp73
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dp73

We don’t know which 5 teams will need QB’s next year. The Giants and the Redskins didn’t need QB’s this year.

NewEnglandBlight
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NewEnglandBlight

at this point, though, wouldn’t he just be thrown into the QB competition?

rking88
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rking88

yeah he’d be thrown into the mix… but if he doesn’t offer a noticeable upgrade over stidham (and based on his results, i dont know that he would), i’d rather roll with Stid and see what happens

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

Please, not Andy Dalton. I would rather sign Cam Newton

JLStokes
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JLStokes

Me too.

dp73
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dp73

I would not be against bringing in Cam Newton but we just don’t know if Newton is healthy.

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

The health factor is really important, i agree

dp73
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dp73

Would you rather have Stidham and Hoyer as the only options?

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

Like Evan Lazar, i’m finding J’Mar Smith a very interesting project (not a starter most likely in the next 2 years). I wouldn’t be mad with him as 3rd or 4th QB on the roster.

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

If the team wants Stidham to get a chance, I think Dalton is the way to go. He’s 32, so you can keep him around as a backup if Stidham beats him out. He’s really interchangeable with Stidham stylistically so you don’t have to change the offense depending on who’s in. And if the 2020 season goes south you can probably get rid of him easily. I do think Cam, if he’s healthy and running well, is a better player than Dalton. But once you factor in all the other stuff (is he healthy? is he willing to be a… Read more »

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

But to mentor Stidham, wouldn’t you prefer Hoyer, specially on game days on the sidelines?

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

I think that’s overthinking it.

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

I guess we will have to trust BB, at least Dalton is better than Cassell was in 2008

rking88
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rking88

is he though?

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

He probably is. But one walked onto a 18-1 team. One might have the worst offensive skill group in the NFL to work with.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

Keep them all. You’re not settled at QB, you’d only be more settled. And not to “mentor” anybody. 1) That’s not their job. 2) this isn’t some 21 year-old 1st rounder with a huge ceiling that needs some time and coddling. You may end up kicking all of them to the curb next year, who knows?

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

J’Mar Smith looks like he’ll make a fine cardboard cutout of Lamar Jackson on Saturdays

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

and he actually looks more accurate

MrLucky
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MrLucky

Ya in those big time games against UMass, Florida Int., and Rice.

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

MrScratch. i understand what you are saying and i agree: I would let them fight for the starting job until the season start.
But i don’t know if that’s what BB wants, i don’t know if he wants to test Stidham this season before he makes a bigger move next season.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

You can never assume there’s going to be a bigger move to be made, especially in light in this climate. You have one of the rare situations where experienced, starting, relatively prime age QBs out numbered the available jobs on the market. That doesn’t happen often. You go into a draft next year where, sure, you have Lawrence and Fields at the top but after that you may not have a season to make decisions off of. If Stidham is the guy, he’s the guy. Let him prove it. Otherwise, that’s a hell of an assumption. He’s shown nothing and… Read more »

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

yep, but BB has one advantage about Stidham that we the fans don’t have, he can watch him every day and how he is evolving, what is his personality, etc.
But i agree with you 100%.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

Still. You won’t know until he’s oiyt there, if he gets out there. This isn’t like Philip Rivers succeeding Drews Brees or Aaron Rodgers taking over for Brett favre. This is a guy who has to force his way on to the field and make it so you can’t him off. He doesn’t get a reserved parking spot on day one.

dp73
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dp73

To me the one big question about Newton is if he can’t be a factor in the running game . Can he make the transition into being just a pocket passer.

Deadsmack #GottaBelieve
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Deadsmack #GottaBelieve

If Cam can’t scramble he is not worth to sign, he is too old to learn to play in the pocket. He needs to be almost like Wilson and that means he needs to protect himself, specially when he scrambles

Clark4to15
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Clark4to15

To me Uche is more or less Elandon Roberts (similar size, build and measurables) with a shot at being used as a situational blitzer up the middle. A Core special teams player and a backup/situational/rotational player. He has great straight line speed but he’s pretty inexperienced and doesn’t show a lot of instincts. I can’t see him as an edge player I think he will have to be a reserve ILB. I did not do 200+hours of pre draft research. Instead I’ve been doing post draft research on the guys we drafted. I’m not an expert. Nor did I stay… Read more »

Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy
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Mattdog #GoodLockerRoomGuy

Good to have you back, Clark. I hope you stay a while!

Bones
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Bones

Love the new screen name, Clark!

JLStokes
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JLStokes

I joke about Andy Dalton, but in reality, he could probably, at the very least, challenge for the AFCEast crown with the current Pats team. I just think he’s the epitome of mediocrity though lol

dp73
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dp73

Is Stidham better than Dalton ? I would say we don’t know.

Dalton is inconsistent.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaltAn00.htm

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

The nice thing about bringing in Dalton to compete with Stidham is that they are very similar. They have comparable stature, and their strengths and weaknesses are a lot alike. If Stidham ends up starting with Dalton backing him up, you have a vet he could prob lean on. And if Dalton wins out you have a better football team than you would have otherwise.

dp73
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dp73

I would be for bringing in Dalton.

Why would BB want to put all hope on Stidham and not have more options? Is Hoyer really a good option?

hugowasmyhomeboy
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hugowasmyhomeboy

I agree – I think Dalton is an upgrade over Hoyer. Perhaps Hoyer is better at the clipboard-holding duties, running the scout team or whatever, because he’s a career backup. But Dalton is no doubt the better player of the two.

JLStokes
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JLStokes

Depends on the goal. I’m all for tanking 🙂

JLStokes
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JLStokes

Until proven otherwise, everyone who’s played significant snaps in actual NFL games is better than Stidham.

dp73
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dp73

Bottom line for me he is and has been is that we need to see Stidham on the field in a regular season NFL game. If he is not up to the task do we really want Hoyer as the best next option?

MrScratch
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MrScratch

We were 12-4 last year and the passing game could absolutely be described as mediocre. They won the SB the year before and it wasn’t a whole of a hell lot better.

rondo723
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rondo723

Dalton tore ligaments in his thumb 2 seasons ago and was coming back from that surrounded by a dismal squad last season. Before that he was serviceable to above-average, posting passer ratings of 106.2 and 91.8 in 2015 and 2016. Why not bring him in, if Stidham can’t beat him in open competition…wait, where have I heard this before…?

Bones
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Bones

If he took vet minimum, and not a one-year deal, I’d take a look.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

This from Bill Barnwell yesterday before the release and I don’t know what he thinks Dalton’s market is or how much he really understands the cap, but anyway: _________ The only unsettled starting quarterback job left is in New England, and while Dalton would be a logical fit, the Patriots don’t have the cap space to offer the 32-year-old much money. Plenty of teams would be interested in him as a backup — the Steelers, Titans, Seahawks and Rams all need one — but not at this price tag. __________ Gives a decent perception around the league. Repotedly the Jags… Read more »

JLStokes
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JLStokes

@Trags
No one on the roster does this. Probably a reason they took a chance. https://twitter.com/tkyles39/status/1255590052580806657

Bones
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Bones

Do we have enough receivers that can fight for those balls?

JLStokes
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JLStokes

Well, they drafted one who’s strength is supposed to be that and we already have another who’s made a career and won 3 Super Bowls doing that, so there’s something…

JLStokes
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JLStokes

I’ve decided that I’m rooting for J’Mar Smith to unseat both Hoyer & Stidham for the starting job. Smith’s tape makes him look like a poor man’s Russell Wilson. I like that.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

Oh Lord. The QB situation has officially become infinite monkey theorem.

JLStokes
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JLStokes

I’ve decided to root for not the underdog, but the sewer dog lol

Neil X
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Neil X

Yeah, there was some kook on this website for months openly mocking anyone who suggested that the Pats were just going to roll with Stidham and Hoyer.

rondo723
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rondo723

How poor is this man?

JLStokes
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JLStokes

Beyond bankrupt.

MrLucky
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MrLucky

Anyone but Hoyer or Dalton please.

bring
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bring

there’s a shocker

JLStokes
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JLStokes

Glad I can keep you on your toes.

bring
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bring

would you take brissett back if the colts cut him?

JLStokes
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JLStokes

Actually, I would. Brissett has experience in the Pats system, plus almost a season and a half of experience as a starter. Yes, I’d take him over Stidham and Hoyer.

bring
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bring

I would bring him in too, but over Hoyer, not Stidham.

Let him compete with Stidham for starting job.

JLStokes
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JLStokes

At this point, Brissett is better than Stidham. Jacoby had the Colts on the way to a possible playoff berth before he got injured.

bring
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bring

that’s your opinion – the only one that matters to me is belichick’s

JLStokes
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JLStokes

LOL Of course. Why do people use this as some sort of “debate ender”? It’s kinda silly.

bring
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bring

you stating things as fact is kind of silly

JLStokes
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JLStokes

What did I say wasn’t a fact?

1. Brissett has more NFL experience than Stidham.
2. Brissett has experience in the Patriots system.
3. Brissett had a winning record with the Colts prior to his injury this part season.

Of those previously stated points, what exactly isn’t factual?

dp73
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dp73

Bill must like him 🙂

rondo723
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rondo723

The Bengals released Andy Dalton. Let the speculation commence.

MasterAndCommander
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MasterAndCommander

Not enough cap space right now, even with a reduced contract

bring
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bring

now that’s funny right there – if BB pulls him in for vet min, the fanbase will explode

JLStokes
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JLStokes

I’d vomit.

bring
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bring

regarding the kicker’s tatoos – it doesn’t matter if he knew what it meant or not – we’re all products of our environment. his old environment did stuff like that. his new one doesn’t, so he’s removing it. if it is truly his govt philosophy and it affects the locker room, i believe we have the player leadership in place to handle it. i don’t expect we will be hearing much more of this

JLStokes
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JLStokes

Would you feel that way if it was a Nazi symbol?

bring
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bring

no because everyone knows what that means

although i always allow for the stupidity factor on all kids, especially dumb jocks

JLStokes
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JLStokes

He knew what it meant. If he didn’t he’s not as smart as he probably should be.

bring
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bring

product of his environment – simple as that

JLStokes
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JLStokes

That’s not an excuse.

bring
Member
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bring

yes, it most certainly is, for dumb-ass kids who don’t know any better

JLStokes
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JLStokes

That’s like say “Well, he grew up watching his dad beat his mom’s ass, so it’s okay he did the same to his wife because, y’know, product of his environment”.

At some point we have to take personal responsibility.

MrLucky
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MrLucky

We choose who we want to believe. I’m sure the Pats did extensive research. His former teammates have all come out in support of him and he’s said all the right things.

Or we can just follow the media lynch mob and bury him before he gets a chance as if no one did anything stupid at 18.

JLStokes
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JLStokes

I’m not worried about the media, I’m going off his words and the facts presented. I’m not trying to “lynch” anyone, but I’m also very aware of the narratives that come into play when minority players come into the league as opposed to white players.

If it was a black player coming in with, say, a Blood tattoo he’d be labelled a thug. I’m just bringing the same energy and questions those players get their way to him.

Zoocore #WelcomeBackBoney
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Zoocore #WelcomeBackBoney

I haven’t paid attention to this. What is up with the Kicker and his tattoos?

JLStokes
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JLStokes

He has a 3%-er tattoo. Let’s just say most people who love this symbol have alot in come with the Cheeto-in-charge.

bring
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bring

some kind of alt right thing

NewEnglandBlight
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NewEnglandBlight

the same “alt-right thing” that plowed into and murdered protesters in Charlottesville, VA. I will forgive the kid for getting a stupid tattoo, but it’s on par with having a swastika– he should have known better.

Though I totally agree he was a product of his environment, and West Virginia definitely has that kinda environment.

Bones
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Bones

He’s from Troy, New York. One year or less (got it as a teen) in WV isn’t gonna convert you.

JLStokes
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JLStokes

Doesn’t matter how long he was there.

Bones
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Bones

I’m commenting on the environment arguments. He was likely that way before moving to WV.

NewEnglandBlight
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NewEnglandBlight

didnt know this, thanks.

MrLucky
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MrLucky

Pats drafted some kicker in the fifth round that has a tattoo of some far right militia group that’s pro guns so naturally he’s been labeled a white supremacist. He said he’s getting it removed and got in while in high school.

JLStokes
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JLStokes

No, he got it in college.

bring
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bring

he got it when he was 18

JLStokes
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JLStokes

What age do you generally go into college again…?

MasterAndCommander
Editor
Practice Squad
MasterAndCommander

WAKE UP!!!!!

(This seems familiar……)

dp73
Member
Free agent
dp73

Good morning !!!!

Bones
Guest
Free agent
Bones

It’s not familiar. You used to wake us up at 5am. Do your job!

MasterAndCommander
Editor
Practice Squad
MasterAndCommander

if i’m working at home i ain’t getting up at 5. You’ll take a 7:30-8:00 AM wake up call and like it!!!!