The Schrödinger Season

-by rking88

While I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the majority of NFL players wouldn’t know the classic paradox, those of us who never had the talent to become professional athletes may have come across it a time our two in our lives. At its most basic, Schrödinger’s paradox is as follows: A cat is in a box with poison that may or may not be released with equal probability. Should the poison be released, the cat will die, but if not, the cat lives. To the outside observer, it is impossible to know if the cat is alive or dead without opening the box. The paradox claims that until the observer opens the box, the cat is simultaneously alive and dead. (Interestingly, Erwin Schrödinger presented the paradox as a criticism of this interpretation of quantum mechanics, and now it’s used as the example to explain this interpretation of quantum mechanics. How about that.)

So what does this have to do with football? Nothing. But going into a bye week following an embarrassing loss to a team that should’ve been easily beaten means that we observers have a sour taste in our mouths and need something to keep us occupied or distracted. Rather than talk about football itself, I’m taking this opportunity to talk about perspective and observer reaction to the ebbs and flows of the season.

Everyone reacts differently to highs and lows over the course of the season, but interestingly it seems as if the lows bring out the more passionate voices. So here we are after a demoralizing beat down. There are the blind optimists: everything is great and they’ll get it figured out. The apocalyptic heralds: this is the end, the team is garbage and going nowhere. There are also of course a thousand varying degrees of confidence and concern in between. Which is the reality? Is this team a Super Bowl contender? Are the Pats in the mix to win it all? Is this season destined for failure? Has New England too little talent and are they too inconsistent to win? The answer of course (and the reason for the title) is that they are both, at least until the box is opened at the end of the year. They are simultaneously on track to win the Super Bowl, and to be a spectacular let down once the playoffs arrive.

A season cannot be judged until its completion, but that doesn’t stop us from trying. The team as it sits right now, 7-3 going into the bye with some ugly road losses to lesser teams alongside impressive home wins against quality teams, means that we know two things: the Patriots are good, and they are bad. Good enough to beat the Packers and Chiefs at home, and bad enough to lose convincingly at Detroit and at Tennessee. Every attempt to define the team before the season ends, however, is a wasted effort. Until the last snap is played, we can only say that the team is good enough to win and bad enough to lose.

Past history tells us it is almost impossible to say at this point of the season who will win the Super Bowl. Look no further back than 2001, when the most dominant team in the league up to the last game of the season was upset by a gritty, tough, overperforming group that nobody would’ve thought had a chance halfway through the year (5-5 after 10 games). Two years later and the dominant Pats remained that way right up until sealing the deal against the Panthers. They did the same thing the following year to beat the Eagles. Interestingly enough, the ’04 Pats lost two games, the first to the 15-1 Steelers, which was totally understandable, and the second to the division cellar-dwelling Dolphins, who at that point were 2-11 and the worst team in the AFC. Go figure. The world-beating ’07 team could not be stopped, right up until they were… by… a gritty, tough, overperforming group from New York. (In case you don’t remember, the Giants limped into the postseason going 4-4 in the second half of the season, including 1-2 in their last 3, before winning 3 consecutive road playoff games and then taking down the greatest team in history to that point of the season.) The 2012 Baltimore Ravens also happened to lose 4 out of 5 games to finish their Super Bowl championship regular season, before going on the road to take down the top-seeded Broncos and the second-seeded Patriots in their respective own houses. I doubt many thought they would make a significant post season run with a stumble like that to close out the year, but hey, the box wasn’t open yet. Forget looking at a whole season, just look at one game: “28-3” says it all.

When it’s all said and done, and when the box is opened, this cat will either be alive or dead. Both are true until we get there. It’s one of the things that makes a football season so exciting. There are 16 games and anything really can happen. Riding the roller coaster of reactionism after every game is exhausting but it also makes the season fun. The truth is there is validity to those extreme shifts in perspective week to week because, as we continue to see, it really can be that good and that bad from one week to the next. That said, what’s really going to be fun is finally getting to open up that box sometime in January or February and trying to determine just what happened to the cat and when.

SURPRISE! It’s TUMS-O-METER Prediction Time!
Well, the Patriots have a bye week, but with the loss to Tennessee last week, concerns about the team continue even though they are 7-3. So with no game, should there even be a prediction? Sure there can. BSJ has a TUMS habit so even with a bye, the prediction this week is 1 bottle.

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BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

test

DNOMN8R314
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NEW POST
—>

dp73
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dp73

http://www.providencejournal.com/ZZ/sports/20181120/despite-struggles-chris-hogan-remains-focused-and-positive

I think we will see an uptick in production form Hogan. Brady has looked at the film and has commented that he needs to find the open man more. I think Hogan will get some catches in the coming weeks.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

if Hogan is open, and everyone else is covered, yes Brady needs to throw to him. But the same can be said for any pass catcher in the offense. And we have at least 5 players that are more talented pass catchers than Hogan. Why force it?

dp73
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dp73

Not saying Brady should forced it but the Tennessee tape did show Hogan open and Brady has admitted that he needs to do a better job of spreading the ball around.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

I agree with Brady

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

tired of hearing about Hogan and Dorsett’s role and lack of production. They are the 5th/6th options in this offense, at best. Why would anyone expect the 5/6 options on any team in the League to have good numbers?

dp73
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dp73

I don’t think it is fair to put Hogan with Dorsett. Hogan played a lot of snaps and Dorsett has not.

Hogan has play a lot of snaps the last two games and has no receptions. I think that is why we are seeing a lot of comments about his production.

dp73
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HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

it’s a good perspective on coaching philosophies.

Here’s a much more sobering article from Curran:

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/bills-coming-due-patriots-dynasty-after-season?int

dp73
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dp73

Yeah, I am a fan of Tom E Curran’s writing.

I have been reading him since he starting writing for the Providence Journal.

Kerthwap
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Kerthwap

I’m stealing that “moronic, ears-pinned pass rush” line. That described the defense perfectly.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

crazy thing was, both teams were doing it! Hence the score.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

MattDog #FreeBoney

Yeah, and the guy that determines wheter a receiver can or cannot catch up to the ball is a flawed human being. I’m sorry about that.

By that logic, a pitcher’s strikeouts and walks stats are meaningless.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

And the “guy” doesn’t determine if a receiver can catch up to a ball or not. All they determine is if the ball was overthrown or not. Not “if the receiver ran .06 MPH faster he could have caught it”.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

probably won’t matter anyway next year, when the Pats have Mariota throwing to a 34 year old Edelman, a could-fail-a-drug-test-at-anytime Gordon, White, and the rest scrub FA and rookie TEs and WRs. The Piper is about to be Paid.

SamiG
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SamiG

Interesting discussion regarding Welker and Edelman drop rates. I personally never thought either had great hands. Welker definitely was worse though post-ACL. It took awhile for me realize just how good DAs hands are.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Other than 2010, Welker’s numbers (post ACL) were pretty much like Edelman’s. Before that, not too shabby.

DA had some issues his first couple seasons, but his last 3 were very good.

SamiG
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SamiG

I am biased for DA in 2013 because I admittedly recall bad drops in Miami and Denver that year.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

in 2013 DA dropped 8 of 61 CBs for a drop rate of 13.1%

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

That was also the year he injured his groin in week 1.

SamiG
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SamiG

hi

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

ho

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

Hello Doc!

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

This Thangsiving I am thankful we still have Mattdog!

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

Luv ya bro!!!!! Let’s go Mo Salah and all things Egypt, as long as Hugo Was my Homeboy exists.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

yeah, I need MattDog and Deadsmack to stick around, so that I can get my soccer updates.

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

Jim ________, 19_ _ – 20_ _
That wasn’t a drop, that was an overthrow

– Jim’s headstone

rondo723
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rondo723

his insides are petrified by Tums, 20_ _ might be selling it short

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

I want this picture under the quote….

comment image

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

For some strange reason, the ref decided to play safety for the Packers on this play.

rking88
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rking88

rodgers would’ve but he had no knees or legs

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

Aaron “Steven “Phineas Gage” Hawking” Rodgers

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

I see a catchable ball.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

If his name was Reed Richards

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

As long as two reasonable people can disagree, teh statistic is worthless.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Matt, if Boyce going full speed can’t catch up to a ball, how on Earth is it catchable?

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

If Eli Manning airmails one to OBJ and he happens to make an athletic leap and it skips off the top of his fingers, that is not considered a catchable ball.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Chris Hogan having a ball clang off his hands and into the hands of a defender for an INT is considered a catchable ball.

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

Subjective, bro.

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

I’m sorry it hurts.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

However, if OBJ manages to snag it with one hand but on his way down loses control, then they would call that a drop. This goes to Hugo’s baseball error analogy. Sometimes you get punished for being a superior athlete.

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

You’re making my point.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

No, I’m not. Because OBJ is a superior athlete, he is able to get to throws that a lot of players can’t. Sure, a couple drops that he gets hit with most players wouldn’t even had a chance at.

However, over a complete season (or career), those will be small compared to the total number of catchable balls he gets.

Kerthwap
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Kerthwap

Just look at those stubby little T-Rex arms!

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

impossible. because Brady never commits an overthrow.

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

Welker was sure-handed but his catch radius was very small for an NFL WR. Amendola is only a bit bigger. But his catch radius is much bigger.
I think the thing that separated Welker is that he could catch 90/100 balls with the jugs machine and he could catch 90/100 balls with a linebacker smashing into him.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Unfortunately, all the hits he took over the middle caught up to him in his later years.

rking88
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rking88

you dont have to look back at it if you dont want… but my memory/eye-test tells me that welker’s drop rate increased towards the end of his tenure with the pats… whereas i would guess Jules/Dola’s were higher more recently

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Welker’s drop rate spiked significantly the season after his ACL injury (he tore it in week 17 of 2009). It never went back to his 2007-2009 years.

2007: 5/115 (4.3)
2008: 8/111 (7.2)
2009: 6/123 (4.9)
2010: 13/86 (15.1)
2011: 13/122 (10.7)
2012: 15/118 (12.7)

Edelman (since taking over for Welker) has always been around his average:

2013: 13/118 (11.0)
2014: 11/109 (10.1)
2015: 7/68 (10.3)
2016: 12/110 (10.9)

2018: 3/43 (7.4)

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Refresh to see the drops/catchable balls

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

For those that are interested, Edelman’s drop rate info for

2009-2012: 9/69 (13.0)

rking88
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rking88

funny seeing Clay Matthews in the HOF semifinalists list… I think a lot of people forget that the current Clay’s father played in the league for 19 seasons and was a pretty good linebacker himself

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Drop rates of Wes Welker (2007-2012) and Julian Edelman (2009-2018)

Wes Welker: 60 drops/675 catchable (8.9% drop rate)

Julian Edelman: 55 drops/517 catchable (10.6% drop rate)

That one drop in the SB forever tainted some Pats fans views on Welker’s hands. 2010 (the season after his ACL tear) was his worst season with a drop rate of 15.1%

Danny Amendola (2013-2017) 17 drops/250 catchable (6.8% drop rate)

from 2015-17 he had a drop rate of 3.8%

rking88
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rking88

definitely interesting to compare… I think you’re right about the SB tainting perceptions of welker… compared to Jules’ incredibly clutch catch against the falcons…

i’d like to see a comparison on the drop rate from the RB’s- faulk, vereen, lewis, and white

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Woodhead (2011-12) 2/57 (3.5%)
White (2014-present) 10/240 (4.2%)
Faulk* (2006-2011) 14/202 (6.9%)
Vereen (2012-2014) 11/118 (9.3%)

*PFF stats only goes back to 2006

rking88
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rking88

woodhead is impressive but a small sample size… white… 10 out of 240 pretty great

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

I should probably include his Charger stats as well.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

White (2017-present) 3/128 (2.3%)

rking88
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rking88

unreal haha

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Lewis (2015-17) 7/92 (7.6%)

2016-17 1/50 (2.0%)

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

Yep, Amendola is in a different class than those guys in terms of hands.
Edelman has mediocre hands honestly. He’s just a much more explosive athlete than those other two guys and that more than makes up for it.

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

I think this is a statistic that has too many unknown variables to be accurately calculated.

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

I think the measurement of drops Is pretty consistent. You have to take it with a grain of salt, like you would, say outfield errors in baseball. But it means what it means.

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

We’ve had a long running joke about a famous Boyce “drop” that is disputed by both parties. I imagine they are mostly like this. One man’s drop is another man’s bad throw.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Hey, man. Boyce may have dropped 4 of 12 catchable balls his rookie year. But at least he didn’t drop 4 of 7 like Edelman did in 2010.

So there!

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

And that wasn’t a drop by Boyce (vs. GB in pre-season) since it never touched his hands. That’s what they call an overthrow.

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

But there is no right or wrong answer. It’s up for interpretation. Which means this statistic is B.S.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

That’s not interpretation. If the receiver can’t get to the ball, it isn’t catchable.

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

Yeah, and the guy that determines wheter a receiver can or cannot catch up to the ball is a flawed human being. I’m sorry about that.

Pauly
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Pauly

Travelling so here’s an early Happy Thanksgiving to everyone in Bruh Nation. May you be happy and well fed. May you be surrounded by friends and family that loves ya. May you be thankful for all you have.

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

Same to you Pauly- hope you have a great Thanksgiving.

rking88
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rking88

and the same to you pauly

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

Same to you Pauly! Have a great Thanksgiving!

BoSoxJim
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rking88
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rking88

DAMNIT JIM! Stop giving away all the talent!

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Well, it was a fantasy to think he would go under the radar. It will get even worse (well, better for him) during Senior Bowl week and the combine.

rking88
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rking88

Something tells me we’re not likely to get anyone who we like this far out in advance

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

My brain tells me this is true. However, I try not to listen to my brain when it comes to this. 😉

Fantasyland is a much happier place.

rking88
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rking88

plus they never run out of tums there

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

I disagree with him being slot-only in the pros. Sure, don’t think he’ll be an X, but no reason why he can’t line up as a Z.

Edelman wasn’t/isn’t slot-only. And Isabella has speed.

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

You knew that was going to happen- the jinx is in full swing.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

The jinx isn’t real, dammit!

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

I believe it is real.

rondo723
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rondo723

Cali you are like an anti-Jim bot

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

Thank you.

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

I’d take him in the second. We always waste second round picks anyway. I’d say the kid has a chance to be pretty good.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

What helps is that this should be a very deep WR draft. So teams can grab the conventional taller, bigger WRs and leave the little guy for us. 🙂

Deadsmack #GreenShirtGuy
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Deadsmack #GreenShirtGuy

WOW. what a game last night

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

There was a game last night?

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

Congrats to Rex for getting his own little Butterball for Thanksgiving.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

Well folks, I’m outta here. Have a good evening and have a good Thanksgiving! Be safe, enjoy time with the family, get stuffed with food, and enjoy football. Go Pats!

Thanksgiving Pun

comment image

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

I miss you already 🙁

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

Put a Hallmark movie on.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

That’s not funny, Cali!

And you’ll be watching them as well.

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

I have been too busy- so far 🙂

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

Good riddance, Dave Sarachan.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

I may be in the minority, but I don’t really like that hot chili sauce

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

did we actually hire a manager?

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

No, but this was our last game of the year and the expectation is they’ll have someone new by next year. Judging by the fact that they looked completely overmatched and without a clue against England and Italy, I’d say they need to find someone to lead them soon.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

should have gone after Tata. Gulati is an idiot.

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

@McKennAnalysis Rex Burkhead was, in fact, at practice. He was slightly late due to the birth of his son Jett.
Jett Burkhead, that’s a lot of pressure to put on a kid to grow a mullet and race motorcycles

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

Henry McKenna

@McKennAnalysis
Rex Burkhead was, in fact, at practice. He was slightly late due to the birth of his son Jett.

When is this guy gonna commit?!

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

When he quits plane around and gets on the field.

DNOMN8R314
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Will he be running the jet sweep?

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

If he doesn’t run out of gas

DNOMN8R314
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Just throwing more fuel on the fire

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

If they don’t run the jet sweep, maybe they’ll run the wing t

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

gotta prop him up somehow I guess

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Did his wife run track? Because he certainly isn’t naming him for his speed.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

If he named his son after his career, his name would be Malaysian Air

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

BTW, T. Hlll is a monster! That dude’s speed is just incredible.

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

Mariota seems plausible enough to me.
At some point soon, he’s going to be dirt cheap. At some point soon, we’re going to need a fill-in. Why couldn’t they coincide?
Pats fans are generally overly consumed with exactly who plays QB in the future. Look around the league. LA, Kansas City, hell the Bears are a top 10 offense with Mitch Trubisky under center.
Having a team built around HOF-type QB is a nice luxury, but those are rare and its only one way to skin the cat. You replace Brady by making the rest of the team strong.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Sure, as a bridge QB…why not? I was speaking to franchise QB.

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

I just think people have to question the assumption that you’re looking for a “franchise QB” in the 10-15 year sense.
The Pats are the only one of the recent SB winners that has won with a QB-centric team. Philadelphia, Denver, Seattle. The way the game is changing certainly seems to be accelerating that trend.
Wanna know how the Pats will reload without Brady? They’ll have 6 picks in the first 3 rounds of the draft next year.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

or even more if they trade Brady before it’s too late. But Kraft won’t do that.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Trade him for what? He got a 2nd rounder for the almighty Jimmy G. If the rest of the NFL thinks that BB thinks that TB12 is just about done, why on Earth would they give him much of anything? The main reason why BB can get away with putting out rosters like he has is because of TB12. Without him, he will have to do what pretty much every other team has to do. Part of that means no more being able to stock his roster with STs only players. We know you don’t think very highly of TB12… Read more »

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

many teams would likely trade a 1st round pick for Brady this offseason. but it won’t happen, and the 10 years of (avoidable) suckitude will

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Name the teams that will give a 1st rounder for what might be 2 years at the max of playing time when this trade happens.

Those teams will most likely use a 1st rounder on one of those QBs that you say BB should take to continue on the playoff years without interruption.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

I disagree. The way the rules have rapidly changed to neuter defenses, the teams with the better QBs will be the ones with the most success (well, that was true before but even more so in today’s NFL).

The Eagles were an aberration. Foles had the 2 games of his life in the NFC CG and SB.

Russel Wilson is actually a really good QB.

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

Jim, are you super pumped that Duke Dawson has returned?

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

#BoSoxJinx’s answer will determine Duke’s performance and career trajectory.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

I was as excited over Tavon Wilson and Jordan Richards when they were drafted. How did their Pats career trajectories go?

I also coined Ras-IR Dowling the day he was drafted. Think I was pretty spot on with that one. 🙂

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

We’ll always have Boyce, Jim. <3

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

I still have him in my basement. He’s sad that you haven’t visited him. 🙂

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

He let us down. 🙁

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Yes. Yes he did. 🙁

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

We? Jim’s not sharing…he’s locked in his basement for a reason.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Hey, anybody can come visit him. They just can’t take him home with them.

And no touching!

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

Your first example proves my point.
Your second example jinxed him.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

I think you intentionally misunderstood me. So let me clarify for others who may read this…

I absolutely hated, with an overflowing passion, the Wilson and Richards picks. Just as I hated the Dawson pick.

But hey, maybe he’ll turn out to be a stud. I just seriously doubt it.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

I’m super-pumped to watch him ride pine for the rest of the season. And then either rack up holding/DPI penalties or get burnt in coverage.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

YES!!! Duke will be All-Pro!!!

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

So, he’ll be DPOY next season, then?

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Greg A. Bedard✔ @GregABedard I say Marcus Mariota for next Patriots QB and they jump down my throats. Their answers: Wentz (no shot), C.J. Beathard, Blake Bortles. I’m surrounded by idiots. Why would Mariota be the next Pats QB? Sure, he has some ability but he’s an injury waiting to happen. Unless they happen to luck into the next Brady, the younger Pats fans will have to endure at least a couple years of suckage before the next franchise QB comes around. Unless of course they luck into an Andrew Luck-type situation after one year of suckage. I’m kind of… Read more »

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

Plus, we can actually enjoy draft day a little more.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

we are all giddy with anticipation on who the next Tavon Wilson will be.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

OK, that would not be enjoyable 🙂

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

what if they draft his replacement in the upcoming draft, who is groomed for a year or two behind Brady, then Brady retires, and the new QB leads the Pats to a 10-6 season behind a rebuilt defense? There is a path to non-suckitude here, BB just needs to draft the right QB.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Oh, Hunter.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

I know, “The TB12 Business Interests Theory” yada yada yada.

Which isn’t worth squat if BB decides Brady is declining.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

BB isn’t going to be around for any rebuild.

Again, McDaniels accepted the HC job in Indy and then got a call from the Pats and then backed out of it. There is only one reason why he would do that.

Because that stunt has pretty much burned just about all the bridges in the NFL for future HC opportunities for the forseeable future.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

we are a broken record, you and I

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

yes we are 🙂

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

Deja vu

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

Belichick turned down a job too. Circle of life!

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

no other owner would ever hire him now! He burned bridges!!!

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Ummm, had BB bombed out in NE, you’re damn right he wouldn’t have gotten another HC job.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

He would have to go back to being a DC and then years later, he might have gotten another shot.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

and another owner might think McDaniels is the next BB, regardless of what he did to the Colts. All it takes is one stupid owner to hire McDaniels to be the Head Coach. Oh, right, that is Kraft!

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Only if he was successful as a HC in NE.

They forgive winning HCs. Not losing ones.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

and McD was a losing HC, you’re right about that.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

I’m with you on the agony of wasting Brady’s last years, though. That is indeed what they are doing when they trot out defenses like this.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

I wonder if KC is the first team to put up over 50 points with 5 turnovers. All I can say is that McVay got lucky last night with really bad time clock management at the end with 3 passes, very fortunate that Mahomes threw another INT. But that was fun to watch and reminded me of how bad NE’s D will get torched playing either of those teams.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

if we can run the ball and win the field position battle, we might have a chance. turnovers would obviously help. If we get into a shootout track meet, forget about it, there will be too much bending and breaking by the Pats D

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

McVay took a page out of the Falcons book…

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

impossible… the Rams actually won

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

That’s because KC doesn’t have the GOAT

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

Jordan Richards?

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

as for the Titans/Colts game, I think there were 2 main factors… Mariota going out of the game early, and the Colts actually getting their act together as the season has progressed and looking like a decent team. Would not surprise me if the Colts get the #6 seed in the AFC.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

I haven’t followed them but a colts fan said that Luck is putting MVP like numbers but won’t get it because of their record. How true is this? Talking about stats.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

Luck is playing really well. Not sure about the stats.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

I ended up telling him that the Colts can probably hang a banner for that lol

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

He’s got something like 300 yards and 3TDs in 5 straight games

dp73
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Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

So- UMASS is firing Whipple?

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

Maybe BB will hire him!

–BSJim

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

Please no.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

What Cali said.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Zach Allen’s (DE BC) performance vs. Clemson has him climbing up people’s draft boards. I don’t like that one bit.

rking88
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rking88

because you want him to be an under the radar NE pick?

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Yeah. If Jdog were here, he would hit me with the BoSoxJinx line 🙂

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

I’ve already conditioned you to accept that reality

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

You jinxed it- he will go to the Chiefs.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

but if he played for San Diego State you wouldn’t care

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Sure. I only care about players who play for local teams. You figured me out.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

“only” is a bit strong. “mostly” is more apt.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

mostly is wrong as well. If you go over the players I have pounded the table for over the years, the overwhelming majority have not been from around here.

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

And none of them are on the Pats.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

LOL

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

And why is that, Cali?
#Hashtag it

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Well, as I said, what happens when they get here is out of my control.

As for the ones that BB passes on….he certainly lives to regret it even if he won’t admit it 🙂

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

Where were you on Tyreek Hill??

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

Not sure, but we know where he is/was on Hunt…

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

I’d rather have Tyreek

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

I’d rather have Hunt.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

Has anyone seen Mike Hunt?

— JDog

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

And that is why he’s not coming to the Pats

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

I wasn’t.

MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats
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MattDog #N'KealHarryToThePats

That’s cruel Cali.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

I actually will defend you on this one. I think the only local kid that I remember you pining for is Landry.

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

And I still am 🙁

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

And that is why he’s not coming to the Pats 🙁

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

That’s cruel.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

You don’t have a heart that’s true

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Of course there are local kids I wanted (very much so) the Pats to draft. Like Matt Milano and Obi, for recent examples.

But the majority come from other schools. That’s because BC, UConn and UMass don’t pump out NFL caliber players every year like Alabama, Georgia, etc

That and there are a lot of friggin schools that have really good player (well, potentially really good).

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

Still can’t believe we got the shit beat out of us by the Tennessee F’n Titans.

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

and the Lions…

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

and Blake Bortles…

JLStokes
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JLStokes

I’m not too surprised with either the Lions or Jags loses in retrospect. It was early in the season (where the Pats have “struggled” as of late) and the lack of weapons around Brady was VERY apparent. Add on both Flowers and Chung’s injuries and none of us should have been surprised.

MrLucky
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MrLucky

Watching them get blown out against Indy only enraged me more. The Titans are who we thought they were, and we let them off the hook.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

Don’t be Green with envy

dp73
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dp73

I can’t either but it is now about moving on. We need to beat the Jets. You think we can?

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

They need to beat the doors off them, dp. I’m tired of hearing them talk about how they need to start fast on the road. They have to go out and do it. 60 minutes of beat-down football.

They need to start showing some of the tenacity that teams like the Titans, Lions and Jags have shown against them. Not saying to go overboard and treat it like the most important game of all time, but don’t play like you’re in a walk-through practice either.

JLStokes
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JLStokes

They need to WIN.

No one cares about style points.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

not about style points. it’s about confidence.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

Right…confidence and consistency.

JLStokes
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JLStokes

Winning breeds confidence.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

if the Pats play poorly and just eke out a win against a very poor Jets team without their starting quarterback, and they are happy about it, then that is pathetic

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

But hey, they won so they’ll be confident! Haven’t you heard Brady be uber confident when the offense sputters but they still won? I could’ve sworn he’s sounded very chipper about leaving points on the board and missing throws.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

coaches love badly executed wins as well. so much so, in fact, that they will cancel practices if the team plays badly and wins!

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

#Confidence

dp73
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dp73

Style points are huge here. lol

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Style points mean nothing. Playing like a potential SB champ does.

I’m sorry for expecting them to play that way.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

It’s pretty extreme, but if we win 3 to 2 on a last second 55 yd FG you won’t care how they won?

BoSoxJim
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BoSoxJim

Who the hell said anything about style points? Squeaking out a win on a last minute FG against the Jets isn’t going to do anything about answering whether or not this team has what it takes to go deep in the playoffs.

They have had two weeks to prepare and have all said they need get off to a fast start.

This is a team they should wipe the floor with and they need to start playing that way.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

completely agree

dp73
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dp73

I will take a win of any kind. That said the Patriots have been so much better at home that I would like them to play a complete game on the road with 60 minutes of good football.

The key to the Patriots season is getting as high a seed as they can so they can play at home in the playoffs. A key to that is the Pittsburgh game which is a against a good opponent on the road.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

11-5, #4 seed, one home game on WC weekend. Alas.

dp73
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dp73

It could be but seeing them take care of Pittsburgh in their home stadium would make me feeling stronger about the Patriots chances on the road in the playoffs.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

yes, agreed, it’s why they need to figure out how to play better on the road, because that’s what they’re going to have to do in the playoffs.

JLStokes
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JLStokes

IMO, the game on defense came down to a bad day at the office for Gilmore. On offense, all the injury and bad play by the O-Line pretty much started a chain reaction that cause the terrible offense; that and they were clearly easing Michel back in.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

special teams sucked too. what’s the excuse there? old man Slater had a cold?

dp73
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dp73

I would be surprise if Slater and Ebner were here next year.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

Bad day at the office…duh.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

believe it. this Pats team is inconsistent at best.

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

They’re consistent at home and dookie on the road.

HunterCenter
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HunterCenter

so, consistently inconsistent?

rondo723
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rondo723

Fultz saga turns again, as a supposedly healthy guy who has a mental block affecting his shooting suddenly needs to see a shoulder specialist again per his agent/attorney, coincidentally just as his role significantly diminishes after the acquisition of Jimmy Butler. This guy can’t be long for the Sixers. And this is on the same day that they found out their 2018 1st round pick Zhaire Smith had such a bad allergic reaction to sesame seeds that he has lost over 20 lbs and is unlikely to play this season. I know the C’s are struggling, but this stuff out… Read more »

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

Philly with Tatum instead of Fultz would be a nice team. Celts would look a heckuva lot different if somehow the Sixers selected Tatum instead.

rondo723
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rondo723

Yeah it’s a big what-if. I’ve heard that the C’s were going to take Tatum at #1, but I don’t know if that has been substantiated. My feeling is that they probably saw a few prospects (Fultz, Tatum, maybe Josh Jackson) as equal and ended up getting super-lucky with how things worked out.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

Yeah I heard they were taking him #1 too but I wonder if they “knew” Philly wanted Fultz so they played it off like other teams may be interested or that they too may be interested so they pounced.

MrScratch
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MrScratch

It was reported that someone in the FO said after the trade, “We’re going to get the guy that we would’ve taken anyway.”

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

As much as I hate this paper, hate Mehta, and hate the thought of this story, I can’t but help that think he’s right. 🙁

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/ny-sports-jets-patriots-gronkowski-mehta-20181120-story.html

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

He might be right, but I’m just hoping that it’s injuries that have slowed him down, but once he’s back to being healthy, he’ll be back to his normal self. Something definitely doesn’t look right about him though. Maybe the constant double teaming is wearing thin on him.

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

From what I’ve read by other people, he’s been a lot easier to defend 1 on 1, this year, too, though. Not just the double teams.

DNOMN8R314
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I think the injuries are important, but the constant attention on him has been understated this year. Remember, Edelman was out the first four weeks, and after the Houston game, he was the only regularly reliable target, so defenses smothered him.
Given the time spent to make sure he’s up to speed, I think the Patriots brass knows the importance of a fully healthy, dominant Gronk to the offense, and are looking to see that over the last few weeks of the year.

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

I agree with the first 4 weeks, for sure. He was smothered. That said, the eye test shows me that he’s really, really slow. I hope it was just his ankle and maybe the last few weeks off has helped.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

I think the whole is greater than the sum of it’s parts. I think it’s all interrelated for sure. Jules helps Gronk and vice versa, which in turn also helps Hogan. Add Gordon to mix along with White/Michel then the offense operates like a well oiled machine, but if you lose Gronk or Jules in this current offense, then it takes away parts of field which allows defenses to key in on certain players. Additionally, the OL not being healthy or effective is what also helps or hurts the passing game.

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

This is true. Look what this offense was doing to teams when the OL was in tact and both Gronk, Edelman, and Michel were on the field together.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

That’s the only thing we can hope for. I was mentioning the other day that this is the first time I’ve seen that the Pats offense truly needs a healthy team, unlike previous years where they just plug guys in they keep ticking.

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

The OL, especially. Brady has been dodging ghosts the last few weeks.

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

I still think that he’ll retire at the end of the season.

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

He’ll retire before going to another team, for sure. Poor guy has donated his body to the game. If he could have just had a couple of those injury ladened seasons back, he’d probably have quite a few records.

Calipatsfan3473
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Calipatsfan3473

He would be smart to walk away before he further injures his back- which seems to be the main issue. I witnessed my father suffering through back problems and the older he got the worse he felt.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

This is why I hate TJ Ward / Pollard

rking88
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rking88

it’ll definitely be interesting to see how he looks coming off of his three weeks rest/rehab… while its true that he hasn’t been his dominant pass-catching self, the times he’s played he seems to still have been effective in the run game… where he’s still arguably one of the better TE’s in the league…

even a gronk at 50% of his best as a catcher and 75% of his best as a run blocker is better than all but a few of the TE’s in the league

MrScratch
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MrScratch

I think this fairly alarmist and a little misleading. He commits the statistical fallacy of trying to separate out a single performance. For the year, Gronk’s YPC is 15.4. His career average is 15.2. His RPG are 4.1. his career average is 4.6. His YPG is 64. His career average is 70. It’s not quite as gloomy as it’s being made out. And let’s just totally dismiss his 3-93 game against KC in week 6? That said, I do think there is probably some decline going on and the idea that he will break down completely at some point i… Read more »

Saturn III
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Saturn III

The Big XII text me last night, they said they were jealous of last nights game.

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

Haha I saw a twitter quip to that effect
“If you don’t like that, you don’t like Big 12 football!”

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

KC last five games are 2 x Raiders, @ Seahawks, vs, Chargers and Ravens. SEA is the only game I could see a loss, trusting BAL or Rivers team to help out the Patriots are extremely suspect.

Opinion Slayer
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Opinion Slayer

That was an entertaining game last night and I had fun watching it but I don’t buy this narrative that this is the “new” NFL that I’m reading. There are only 4 -5 teams that have the firepower to put up 50, it’s just that we saw two of them play each other last night and both of them don’t have good to great defenses, although there were some great defensive plays made. Patriots need to go 6-0 now and need to start by putting a full 4 quarter game on Sunday, especially the offense.

DNOMN8R314
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Burkhead & Allen not at practice ->

MrLucky
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MrLucky

Celtics have to make a trade right? Too many guys that need their shots and can’t get in a rhythm seems to be the problem. Rozier and Brown have to be the ones to go. Maybe for a true shooting guard or big man?

JLStokes
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JLStokes

Crazy thought, but what if it’s Kyrie that has to go?

bring
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bring

say what?

it’s up to stevens to figure out what works and what doesn’t, but thankfully ainge has a long-term view of his team

itsBradyBaby
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itsBradyBaby

Say what you want but none of these teams are as entertaining as the 07 Pat’s offense

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

That KC offense is pretty entertaining tho. Hill and Hunt are pretty dope.

itsBradyBaby
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itsBradyBaby

Yeah still not as entertaining.

MrLucky
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MrLucky

It’s just so normal now in the NFL to be putting up 40 and 50 burgers.

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

Will we get our entire starting OL back this Sunday? I’m sure Brady, Michel, and White hope so.

NewEnglandBlight
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NewEnglandBlight

Kinda sounds like Mason is ready to go..

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

Hopefully he can build off his progress

Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney
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Zoocore #WeMissYouBoney

Guy is built like a brick house.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

Yeah, he stonewalls defenders for sure.

rking88
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rking88

LOL somebody in the presser asking Bill about basically if certain QB’s throw hospital balls and if Brady is better at not doing that…

Bill’s response: “uh… no quarterback intentionally throws to get their players hurt so im not really sure what youre asking”

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

While true that no QB intentionally throws to get players hurt, I think there is truth in that some QBs don’t consciously try to avoid getting their guys lit up and Brady seemingly does a good job of not getting his guys killed.

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

I can’t think of a single player whose career has ended stemming from a hit they took while catching a ball from Brady.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

Not many players come to mind that have had career ending injuries from catches though. I know Brady has thrown some balls to Gronk that has ended his season when Ward lit up his knee.

Kerthwap
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Kerthwap

A lot of them however brainlessly throw them. Never heard the hospital ball term before, but Drew Bledsloe was the king of them. Brady and his receivers seem to consciously work on the ankle catches.

rking88
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rking88

definitely agree… Brady has always been good at throwing his guys into “safe catch” spots… just interesting to see the exchange between bill and the reporter as always

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

Peyton Manning shilling insurance post-retirement is his penance for getting a few men killed over the middle

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

Direct link to the punt from last night
https://youtu.be/AkMUXct0kEc?t=936

Jonc77
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Jonc77

punt porn

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

That was a Hekker of a punt. But also an awful decision to return it — wasted time and lost yards from where it would have started if it were a touchback.

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

Yea. But the returner having to run backwards to catch it makes it hard to make a decision, they don’t know exactly where they are anymore. So the punt being such a boomer put Hill in a tough spot.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

But doesn’t a returner get trained that if they stand at the 10 and it goes overhead then they need to let it go. He was at the 20 when it went booming over his head. If he’s a PR he should be good at tracking…which means he ran backwards a lot so he should know. Just my thought. I think he wanted to be the hero to get a good return.

hugo #FreeBoney
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hugo #FreeBoney

In theory that’s what you want to do, I think its just waaaaay harder than it looks on TV. He’s looking up for the ball. They only know where they are from where they know they started. Get driven back like that and its out the window

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

Yeah I’ve never returned a punt so I’m sure it’s difficult, otherwise it wouldn’t difficult to find good PRs. I just think of baseball outfielders…they are aware of the wall (granted there is a “warning track” but they still seem to be aware to not run right into the wall when tracking a deep fly ball.

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

Source says ESPN drew a 11.3 overnight rating for the Rams-Chiefs game. That’s lower than people in the biz expected, I’d imagine.
For context: The Packers-Patriots drew a 15.6. –>

Very interesting because i thought for sure it would be higher…especially the way the ESPN was touting it. I guess people weren’t as thrilled to see the Chainsmokers perform

Jonc77
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Jonc77

the announcers were horrendous

Jdog Lemon Head
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Jdog Lemon Head

ESPN is trying to find their Tony Romo in the booth.

Jonc77
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Jonc77

they failed.

itsBradyBaby
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itsBradyBaby

The Pat’s will win the AFC, Chiefs will lose again and we will beat the Steeless, already got tie breaker over Houston but they might lose more games, the Chargers of course will lose couple more games cuz it’s what they do, and if we have to go to Kansas I’m taking our D over them to win the game because it’s what it will come down to.

NewEnglandBlight
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NewEnglandBlight

Jermaine Cunningham

itsBradyBaby
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itsBradyBaby

Matt Light

MrLucky
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MrLucky

Weed shops open today in Mass! Keep an eye out for Josh Gordon and do whatever it takes to stop him if you go.

dp73
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dp73

There is no truth to the rumor that Gronk is with him 🙂

Neil X
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Neil X

I found the Bears/Vikings game to be much more entertaining that last night’s pseudo-football game. I mean jeez, you have Aaron Donald crowing about playing well when his defense just gave up 50 points. That ain’t football. The way the league is heading really sucks.

dp73
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dp73

I agree. Defense should matter. It was a entertaining game but I don’t want this style to be the new normal.

MrLucky
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MrLucky

Those QBs were making big time throws last night. I don’t mind a good defensive slug fest but more often than not it’s bad offenses making the defense look good. I thought last night was game of the year.

Jonc77
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Jonc77

I agree but the NFL doesn’t care about you. They just had the highest rated Monday game since 2014. Fantasy Football is pretty much all about offense too. The NFL cringes when they see a defensive struggle. They want the casual fan to come on board and spend their money

Neil X
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Neil X

Yes, fantasy football is a huge profit center for the NFL. Games like last night are catnip for FF players. You are correct, there are too few of us that grew up loving defense, there is no market for it.

dp73
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dp73

The Patriots are going to have to have a better pass rush if the are going to get better on defense. Are they capable of it ?

PanicTime
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PanicTime

That’s the only way to defend in the NFL nowadays but they will soon take that away. Defenses will be on the field just to showcase the offenses.

Jonc77
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Jonc77

only if they blitz

PanicTime
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PanicTime

Good game. Everybody seems to be so excited about the high scoring to the point of calling it the best game ever. Is this really what the NFL wants football to turn into. I’m skeptical of this format. Before you know it, it will get to the point where you only want to watch the last two minutes of a game because that will come down to the last possession.

Jonc77
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Jonc77

oh you mean like the NBA